What is Seen in Atom Photographs?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter small_bang
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Atom
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of images representing atoms, specifically those produced by scanning tunneling microscopy (STM) and atomic force microscopy (AFM). Participants explore the nature of these images, the concepts of charge density, electron orbitals, and the transition between quantum and classical representations of matter.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express curiosity about what is actually seen in atom images, questioning whether these represent actual atoms or a form of collapsed probability wave.
  • One participant clarifies that "atom pictures" are not photographs in the traditional sense and suggests providing examples for better interpretation.
  • Another participant explains that STM and AFM images approximate the charge density, which relates to the square of the amplitude of the wavefunction.
  • It is proposed that what is seen are electron orbitals, which define the atom's properties, while the nucleus is too small to be represented at that scale.
  • A participant describes the process of STM imaging as a method of mapping electric charge concentrations, leading to a model that represents these areas visually.
  • Another contribution discusses the metaphysical implications of whether these representations exist in a physical way, emphasizing the practical utility of such models in solid state physics.
  • One participant mentions the "grey area" between macroscopic and microscopic domains, referring to it as mesoscopic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the images do not represent traditional photographs of atoms and that they are based on charge density and electron orbitals. However, there is no consensus on the metaphysical implications of these representations or the nature of existence in a physical sense.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on interpretations of quantum mechanics and the unresolved nature of the transition between quantum and classical realms, as well as the varying definitions of terms like "mesoscopic."

small_bang
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Hi. Well, I hope this doesn't get deleted because of speculative nature or anything, but this seems a good place to ask.
I've read a lot of non-mathematical books on physics (sorry). I'm a very interested layman.

I am curious about these pictures of atoms that you see. The ones that look like little ball bearings shrink wrapped in plastic. <grin>

What, exactly are you seeing? In short, my understanding is that atoms and subatomic particles do not exist in any classical sense. (mathematical representations/probabilities and all that good stuff)

I've read that there is a "grey" area (that has a name, but I've forgotten it) of where the transition of the quantum particles (the ghostly particles of probabilities) becomes the solid matter of everyday existence. Noone has yet to pinpoint this transition

If that IS the case, just what it is we are seeing in those atom pictures?
Are we seeing the actual atom or some sort of "collapsed probability wave' thingy that shows itself beyond this grey transition state (the name of which I can't recall) into our macrocosmic world

pardon my ignorance ; )

Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
There aren't really any such things as "atom pictures," in the sense of a normal photograph that you're familiar with in the macro world.

If you could point us to some examples of the "atom pictures" you're looking at, we can tell you how to interpret them.

- Warren
 
Last edited by a moderator:
small_bang said:
I am curious about these pictures of atoms that you see. The ones that look like little ball bearings shrink wrapped in plastic. <grin>

What, exactly are you seeing?
Not sure if this is going to help, but what you see in all those STM or AFM pictures is a pretty good approximation of the actual charge density (what physicists call the local density of states). The charge density at any point is itself just a number proportional to the square of the amplitude of the total wavefunction at that point.
 
Last edited:
What you're probably seeing (electron orbitals) are pictures (though not produced with ordinary light) of where the electrons "are". That electron cloud basically determines everything of the atom, and the nucleus would be too small to draw anyway at that scale.
 
atom2.jpg

atoms1.jpg


Ok, thanks guys.
I realize, of course that we aren't dealing with light. One of the pages this pic came from had a bit about STM. Let's see if I sort of get it.
Basically what we have is a device for picking up concentrations of electric charge. A computer then takes that, color codes it and maps out a model based on these areas of concentrations. This colorized model can then be printed out.
Sorta like making a 3d model of a terrain map then photgraphing that model to show people.

So, I suppose that we are dealing in more modeling of "stuff" that are made up of fields and probabilities and whatnot and don't exist in a physical way.
 
These are STM images in which a very fine tip scans over a surface. In the crudest sense, you can make a current scan, or a voltage scan over the surface. Based on the variation of these values, you construct an "image" of the surface. So you are "seeing" these things via current or voltage.

Now, the question of whether they "exist in a physical way" is too metaphysical. What you should ask is, is such in information or model be of any use? Sure it does. In solid state physics, we often model the ions that make up the crystal lattice as "solid sphere" as the first approximation. That allows us to make a very good estimate of the lattice constant and how these lattice ions are arranged in a material. Often, such a device is used to see if there are any inhomogeniety in the material, be in due to impurities, vacancies, or existence of different lattice domains. These are all important information regarding the properties of the material or the surface of the material.

Zz.
 
Thanks ZapperZ, I understand what you're saying.

I would have liked to go into physics if I wasn't so grossly math challenged!
 
The "grey area" between the macroscopic and microsscopic domains is sometimes called mesoscopic.
 
  • #10
This thread is 5 years old.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 46 ·
2
Replies
46
Views
5K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
6K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
7K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
9
Views
3K