What is the Dipole Repeller and How Does it Affect Our Galaxy's Motion?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the "dipole repeller," a proposed phenomenon affecting the motion of our galaxy. Participants explore its implications, the nature of the forces involved, and the terminology used in describing this phenomenon, with references to astronomical measurements and theoretical frameworks.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe the dipole repeller as a region of low mass density that contributes to the acceleration of our galaxy by failing to counteract the gravitational pull from surrounding massive structures.
  • Others argue that the term "dipole repeller" may be misleading, as it implies a new force rather than a description of mass distribution perturbations.
  • One participant questions the legitimacy of treating the absence of mass as a contributing cause for acceleration, suggesting it may be a fallacy to consider a lack of mass as a positive force.
  • Another participant draws a parallel to the concept of "holes" in semiconductors, noting that the absence of particles can behave as if it has properties of its own within a continuous medium.
  • A participant raises questions about the size, shape, and prevalence of massless areas like the dipole repeller, as well as their relationship with dark matter.
  • Some participants seek resources, such as a 3D universe map that includes known superclusters, to better visualize the discussed concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation and implications of the dipole repeller, with no consensus reached regarding its characterization or the terminology used. The discussion remains unresolved on several points, particularly regarding the nature of the forces at play and the validity of treating mass absence as a contributing factor.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the terminology and conceptual frameworks used to describe the dipole repeller, noting potential confusion arising from the implications of treating mass absence as a force. There are also unresolved questions regarding the characteristics and prevalence of such massless regions in the universe.

Shellsunde
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Recently, I read a few popularized articles portraying a study and associated calculations using astronomical measurements that posits a characterization of the direction and acceleration (or velocity) of our galaxy. The researchers assert not only is our galaxy being attracted by massive concentrations of mass, but it is also being pushed, impelled, by a region as empty of mass as the massive superclusters attracting us are dense with it. They called the 'impelling' region a "dipole repeller." Here is one of the couple of articles I read, https://phys.org/news/2017-01-galaxy-space.html

None of the articles presented a characterization of the 'pushing' force. Perhaps the authors of the article, to be published in Nature Astronomy, don't presume to characterize it but just argue that it exists. Though the paper has yet to appear, I wish to ask if anyone can imagine and suggest some explanation or foundation for such an entity or phenomenon.
 
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The "dipole repeller" is not any new physics, and the term should not be taken too seriously. All that is happening is, you start with a constant mass density everywhere, a la the cosmological principle, and then our galaxy would be what is known as "comoving" (if it didn't have any additional velocity, but that's not the point here, acceleration is). What it means to be comoving is that it's not really going anyway, just staying put in the Hubble expansion (even though that expansion is itself accelerating, that's not the kind of special acceleration being talked about here). However, measurements show that our galaxy is not simply comoving, because the mass distribution is not uniform on the nearby scales of galaxy clusters. So we think in terms of a perturbation from the constant homogeneous density, and when we think that way, we see not only a mass enhancement in one direction, but also a mass deficit in the other direction. Either of these, by themselves, would cause the galaxy to accelerate in the same direction, so the two add up for even more acceleration. That's the "dipole repeller." But note the deficit of mass is not producing a force itself, it is failing to counteract the force from the constant density that exists everywhere else outside the deficit. So it's all in the way you picture the deviations from a uniform mass distribution, not any kind of new force that "repels." Perhaps it is an unfortunate terminology, you can certainly see how much confusion it is already causing!
 
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Ken G said:
The "dipole repeller" is not any new physics... Either of these, by themselves, would cause the galaxy to accelerate in the same direction, so the two add up for even more acceleration.

It's the magnitude of the objects and their masses that warrants treating a relative absence of mass as a contributing cause for a galaxy's acceleration, correct? However, it seems a fallacy to treat the absence of a thing as if it were an actual, positive, contributing cause. The low-mass area isn't pushing our galaxy away, it's merely not offsetting the attraction of the surrounding masses. Perhaps the merit and legitimacy of treating it this way develops from the the mathematical treatment.
 
I agree the terminology can lead to confusion, but it's not unprecedented. For example, consider the concept of "holes" moving around in semiconductors-- those aren't things either, they are the absence of things. But the absence of something, embedded in an otherwise continuous background of that thing, can take on a "thinginess" of its own as a kind of convenience.
 
Thanks to all the previous commenters, very helpful for all of us who are curious and intrigued by this. Here are a few more questions. How big is this massless area in comparison with the known superclusters, and what is it's shape, and what determines the shape of a massless object? I believe it was last year when scientists proposed rough estimates on the size of the Universe, are there suspected or expected to be more areas like this dipole repeller, are they thought to be common? Also, I get that they are massless, are these voids also lacking dark matter? Or made of it to some degree? I'm trying to imagine what kind of organism the Universe might appear to be if it were to be scaled down. A large stigmatic eyeball perhaps, with veins of superclusters and vast areas of nothingness in-between? Lastly, does anyone know of a publicly available 3-dimensional universe map that includes the known superclusters? Most of what is available online is very limited in scope. Thank ahead of time for any and all responses!
 
Click on the link Shellsunde gave us. The graphic at the start is what you want to look at carefully.
 
Ad3m said:
Lastly, does anyone know of a publicly available 3-dimensional universe map that includes the known superclusters? Most of what is available online is very limited in scope
Hayden planetarium's Digital Unvierse is the best one there is. Available here:
http://www.amnh.org/our-research/hayden-planetarium/digital-universe
Learning the interface is a bit of a hurdle, but not exceedingly so (reading the manual is a must).
 

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