What kind of fusion do you think Star Wars has?

[Maximum7]

Fusion power is mentioned a lot in Star Wars. In the Bad Batch arc of the second to last season of Clone Wars, the Separatist facility was powered by a fusion reactor. The A-wing is powered by fusion. GNK droids are walking fusion batteries and they have made fusion furnaces the size of a small generator. It is so commonplace that nobody gives it a second thought. Some ways to achieve fusion are through plasma, magnetic confinement, inertial confinement, Z-pinch, Beam, Muon-catalyzed. Which one does the Star Wars galaxy use?

 

[jedishrfu]

One we have yet to discover.

 

[Rive]

It's the >> pick from the list << type.

 

[Melbourne Guy]

Fusion power is mentioned a lot in Star Wars.

Do we even know that they mean fusion the way we mean fusion, @Maximum7? It's a universe far far away, after all, concepts might have been lost in translation. They could be fusing dark matter for all we know, it really is a build your own adventure when it comes to Star Wars tech.

 

[Maximum7]

Do we even know that they mean fusion the way we mean fusion, @Maximum7? It's a universe far far away, after all, concepts might have been lost in translation. They could be fusing dark matter for all we know, it really is a build your own adventure when it comes to Star Wars tech.

I’m pretty sure it’s regular fusion. Dark matter and dark energy is mentioned as one of the components of Starkiller Base’s weapon

 

[BWV]

The kind of fusion that can make point five beyond the speed of light, does not look like much, but has got it where it counts

 

[Ibix]

What you get if you cross deuterium pellet, terawatt laser, and primitive human leader from steppes?

Khan fusion! Har!

-- Star Control II

 

[DaveC426913]

Do we even know that they mean fusion the way we mean fusion, @Maximum7? It's a universe far far away, after all, concepts might have been lost in translation.

Indeed.

 

[Ibix]

Indeed.
View attachment 299840

Heh. There's a running joke in David Weber's books of humans colonising planets (e.g. Sphinx) and naming the fauna things like "Sphinxian chipmunk" and the narrative providing no description except to note it looks nothing like a chipmunk.

Dragging myself back on topic, Weber's ships are fusion powered and contain the plasma with yet another application of the same gravity manipulation technology everything else in the universe uses.

 

[pinball1970]

Fusion power is mentioned a lot in Star Wars. In the Bad Batch arc of the second to last season of Clone Wars, the Separatist facility was powered by a fusion reactor. The A-wing is powered by fusion. GNK droids are walking fusion batteries and they have made fusion furnaces the size of a small generator. It is so commonplace that nobody gives it a second thought. Some ways to achieve fusion are through plasma, magnetic confinement, inertial confinement, Z-pinch, Beam, Muon-catalyzed. Which one does the Star Wars galaxy use?

The made up kind

 

[Maximum7]

I honestly don’t know why this section exists. What’s the point of discussing sci-fi physics if everyone either is sarcastic or says “it isn’t real-don’t ask”.

 

[DaveC426913]

I honestly don’t know why this section exists.

Have you looked at other threads in this section? It's pretty fertile with discussions.

What’s the point of discussing sci-fi physics if everyone either is sarcastic or says “it isn’t real-don’t ask”.

At the risk of being glib, what kinds of responses were you expecting?

(P.S. Nobody has said 'don't ask').

 

[russ_watters]

At the risk of being glib, what kinds of responses were you expecting?

Yeah, it's a really weird question. What is the point/purpose?

 

[Maximum7]

Yeah, it's a really weird question. What is the point/purpose?

Well I’m working on a project and exploring the science behind the scenes of Star Wars. The stuff that isn’t mentioned but exists and I was wondering what type of fusion fits the bill for them.

 

[Melbourne Guy]

I honestly don’t know why this section exists. What’s the point of discussing sci-fi physics if everyone either is sarcastic or says “it isn’t real-don’t ask”.

Sorry, @Maximum7, no offence intended, my response was silly because the 'science' of Star Wars is silly. We can find out how we think a fusion reactor will work via Wikipedia and other Google searches, but how that might translate to a 'fusion battery' or an A-wing with a 'fusion reactor' in it? Who knows.

Star Wars uses different physics to us, that's for sure (just think about how those A-wings manoeuvre, non-Newtonian springs to mind), but if you want some speculation, I think the smallest ones are non-thermal, inertial electrostatic types. Larger ones, like ones that power ships, are thermal, levitated dipole types because they need to provide a higher, sustained output.

I've no idea what powers something like a Death Star, though. Wormhole taps into the nearest sun, maybe? It's not fusion reactors, at least not as we know them.

 

[DaveC426913]

Well I’m working on a project and exploring the science behind the scenes of Star Wars. The stuff that isn’t mentioned but exists and I was wondering what type of fusion fits the bill for them.

Prefacing your opening post with the above would have helped us understand what you were looking for (though I'm not sure we'd still be much help).

... the 'science' of Star Wars is silly.

I think this hits the nail on the head. Star Wars is not science fiction; it is space fantasy. There is no science in Star Wars. It's not even hand-waving; its literally technobabble. e.g. Spaceships and explosions do not make sound in space, even with handwaving.So, you can certainly create a bible for explanations of the tech, but it's totally arbitrary. There are no wrong answers.

 

[Maximum7]

Sorry, @Maximum7, no offence intended, my response was silly because the 'science' of Star Wars is silly. We can find out how we think a fusion reactor will work via Wikipedia and other Google searches, but how that might translate to a 'fusion battery' or an A-wing with a 'fusion reactor' in it? Who knows.

Star Wars uses different physics to us, that's for sure (just think about how those A-wings manoeuvre, non-Newtonian springs to mind), but if you want some speculation, I think the smallest ones are non-thermal, inertial electrostatic types. Larger ones, like ones that power ships, are thermal, levitated dipole types because they need to provide a higher, sustained output.

I've no idea what powers something like a Death Star, though. Wormhole taps into the nearest sun, maybe? It's not fusion reactors, at least not as we know them.

Okay. Thank you very much!

The Death Star is powered by hypermatter. Obviously fake but we still don’t know if superluminal particles do or don’t exist. I’m working very carefully on how to explain FTL in Star Wars.

 

[DaveC426913]

how to explain FTL in Star Wars.

Even that is arbitrary.

If an FTL drive is small enough to fit in an X-wing, why don't TIE fighters have them?
After all, that would cut down on the number of Star Destroyers, since they could just launch the TIE fighters from a base light years away.

Additionally, FTL drives are small enough to put in unmanned torpedoes, which can be used to devastating effect, as seen in ... (_{Google Google}) ... SW: TLJ

 

[Maximum7]

Even that is arbitrary.

If an FTL drive is small enough to fit in an X-wing, why don't TIE fighters have them?
After all, that would cut down on the number of Star Destroyers, since they could just launch the TIE fighters from a base light years away.

Well the TIE’s in the Sequel Trilogy (at least some) could make FTL jumps so perhaps it was some engineering problem OR the Empire was way too cheap to equip them as they view their soldiers as expendable.

 

[Klystron]

Well I’m working on a project and exploring the science behind the scenes of Star Wars. ...

Outside the technical side of creating motion pictures and television series, science behind Star Wars may be a relatively small category. George Lucas created a division within LucasFilms that he named Industrial Light and Magic, emphasis on magic, not science.

Lucas gives many examples from history and religion that he incorporated into SW themes. Examples derived from the history of science are not obvious in the original films. Biology such as cloning warriors started appearing when cloning became a popular idea. Perhaps later SW related projects include hard science references not apparent in the original films.

I am currently watching an ILM project with family called "Witcher". The fictional Witcher world is explained by magic, sorcery, spells and potions with no recourse to science. Energy sources reside in magic fountains and deep mysterious pools. Scientific objectivity would literally break the spell.

 

[DennisN]

One we have yet to discover.

Never tell me the odds!

 

[Vanadium 50]

Doesn't it fuse dilithium?

 

[Maximum7]

Doesn't it fuse dilithium?

That could be it but it’s more Star Trek

 

[Drakkith]

Doesn't it fuse dilithium?

Yeah, but first you have to bounce a tachyon beam off the main deflector dish before attending a classical concert.

Well the TIE’s in the Sequel Trilogy (at least some) could make FTL jumps so perhaps it was some engineering problem OR the Empire was way too cheap to equip them as they view their soldiers as expendable.

I've long viewed the TIE fighters as not necessarily expendable, but cheap and maneuverable fighters designed and built for a massive space navy that has to protect a huge amount of territory against raiders, terrorists, smugglers, and the like that use mostly obsolete or semi-civilian ships. Who needs expensive and bulky hyperdrives (and deflectors) when you're probably going to have small outposts on most worlds that you can just man with a dozen or so cheap fighters that will easily handle 99.9% of everything they'll come across. The fact that the rebel alliance has modern warships and advanced fighters is a development that just wasn't expected. The later-developed TIE Interceptors and TIE Advanced fighters were responses to this.

This contrasts with the fighters of the rebel alliance, which can't depend on having a base or outpost on every other planet and have no chance of matching the manpower of the Imperial Navy. They need to be flexible, durable, and able to achieve local superiority even when outnumbered. A handful of fighters with their own hyperdrives have the independence and flexibility to dogfight on monday, run a blockade to meet up with a resistance cell on tuesday, strike an unsupported imperial squadron on wednesday, scatter and hide from a retaliatory attack on thursday, smuggle a couple of proton torpedoes from an imperial armory while on the way back to base on friday, and rest and refit on saturday and sunday.

Those attempting to poke a hole in my headcanon will be slapped with a fish. A large fish.

 

[Melbourne Guy]

The Death Star is powered by hypermatter.

Did not know that. But I was lucky enough to be in the cinemas for the original Star Wars movie when it was released. Even as a sci-fi nerd, I could see that George Lucas drew more from fantasy than science for what was an amazing special effects epic. That's what we all talked about - and what he was often interviewed about - the special effects, there was no 'science' to discuss.

Everything since is made up retrofit, and as @DaveC426913 has noted, pretty much arbitrary!

I’m working very carefully on how to explain FTL in Star Wars.

I'm not sure this means, @Maximum7? Carefully in what sense?

 

[Maximum7]

Did not know that. But I was lucky enough to be in the cinemas for the original Star Wars movie when it was released. Even as a sci-fi nerd, I could see that George Lucas drew more from fantasy than science for what was an amazing special effects epic. That's what we all talked about - and what he was often interviewed about - the special effects, there was no 'science' to discuss.

Everything since is made up retrofit, and as @DaveC426913 has noted, pretty much arbitrary!I'm not sure this means, @Maximum7? Carefully in what sense?

I’ve been doing a lot of research. Going faster than light as an acceleration is a complete impossibility and tachyons if they exist; would go backwards in time. The only reason ships can move FTL is that hyperspace is another dimension where c does not apply and they can move many million times faster than light. A infographic estimated that the Millennium Falcon can move 4 quadrillion miles per hour give or take. Also since hyperspace is a separate dimension there is no time dilation either.

 

[russ_watters]

Well I’m working on a project and exploring the science behind the scenes of Star Wars. The stuff that isn’t mentioned but exists and I was wondering what type of fusion fits the bill for them.

What makes you think the stuff that isn't mentioned exists?

What sort of project?

Obviously fake but we still don’t know if superluminal particles do or don’t exist. I’m working very carefully on how to explain FTL in Star Wars.

I'll be blunt here: the reason people aren't treating this seriously is because the tone of what you are saying implies you don't recognize the difference between science and science fiction, since statements like that pull the two together. Hopefully that impression is incorrect.

 

[Melbourne Guy]

I’ve been doing a lot of research.

That's a good start, I've found research on FTL interesting and fun when I've done it for my novels

Going faster than light as an acceleration is a complete impossibility and tachyons if they exist; would go backwards in time.

Have you considered a circular universe where if you go 'back' far enough you can end up in your own future?

The only reason ships can move FTL is that hyperspace is another dimension where c does not apply and they can move many million times faster than light.

There is also the configuration where hyperspace (or whatever name it has, but often it is called a wormhole) represents a shorter path between two points in our normal universe. In that case, we would record the ship traveling FTL, but it never has to actually exceed the speed of light itself, and might actually consider itself to be moving very slowly indeed.

A infographic estimated that the Millennium Falcon can move 4 quadrillion miles per hour give or take.

I think @DaveC426913 gave the Millennium Falcon's official speed back in Post #8, as nonsensical as that is, but why would this infographic be an authoritative source?

Also since hyperspace is a separate dimension there is no time dilation either.

I assume you mean time dilation based on general relativity, but why do you believe this to be true?

 

[Maximum7]

That's a good start, I've found research on FTL interesting and fun when I've done it for my novels Have you considered a circular universe where if you go 'back' far enough you can end up in your own future?There is also the configuration where hyperspace (or whatever name it has, but often it is called a wormhole) represents a shorter path between two points in our normal universe. In that case, we would record the ship traveling FTL, but it never has to actually exceed the speed of light itself, and might actually consider itself to be moving very slowly indeed.I think @DaveC426913 gave the Millennium Falcon's official speed back in Post #8, as nonsensical as that is, but why would this infographic be an authoritative source?I assume you mean time dilation based on general relativity, but why do you believe this to be true?

I think they professionally calculated it. The infographic is no longer on a site.

As for time dilation; I just assume none of the rules work since they get there within the same time as the rest of the universe

 

[Melbourne Guy]

As for time dilation; I just assume none of the rules work since they get there within the same time as the rest of the universe

Good point!

But it's all handwavium in the end, which is why we can essentially posit anything we like. For example, I could suggest that the FTL isn't anything of the kind, it's actually a dimensional jump to the next nearest parallel universe that matches the desired location, but a nanosecond out of phase so the protagonists never meet themselves and expose the trick!

Or, another idea I had many (many!) years ago was that FTL is achieved via time travel. You go back in time, then launch to your destination - slowly, no need for speed - and once underway, you enter status, which is a local bubble of zero time, for the duration of your very long slower-than-light trip, then come out of status when you're where you need to be, with no perceived time having passed.

(Both of these are admittedly pretty sketchy and neither is how I expect FTL is done in Star Wars, I think it's a "traditional" hyperdrive going above / below reality and shortening the travel time approach.)

I think they professionally calculated it. The infographic is no longer on a site.

That's interesting, do you know if there's enough clues in the movies (and books?) for the distance between two systems to be mentioned and the Millennium Falcon's travel time to be also mentioned? That's the only way I can imagine a speed estimation being done

 

[Rive]

So, you can certainly create a bible for explanations of the tech, but it's totally arbitrary. There are no wrong answers.

Disagree. In case of Star Wars it goes totally wrong when the explanation tries to make sense...

Like when some people tried to explain the wings of the X-wing as radiators, or the side panels of the TIE fighter as solar panels. At the very moment these got printed it went wrong.

 

[TJonline]

The kind of fusion that can make point five beyond the speed of light, does not look like much, but has got it where it counts

, kid.

 

[TJonline]

Star Wars is also fused into the old clandestine harassments regime. It began as 'the art of mind control' in early casting footage. It shows a storm trooper bumping his head on a door threshold complete with sound effect (??) followed by the line 'Take over'. Did you miss it? I sure did during my first 20 viewings of the film. Then C3P0 (with a dent in his head) saying, "That madman! If you hurry, you might catch them!". Also, 'a powerful influence on the weak minded' (and also the strong minded, since even a Powell or a Schwarzkopf can potentially be driven to a quivering blob of protoplasm after long term application of exquisite pain that can never be definitively proven to have any external source). Lucas' concept of 'The Force' is remarkably similar to the anchorman's description of his harassment from the previous year's gaming film 'Network'. 'The force will be with you always.', 'This station is now the ultimate power in the universe.', 'Fear will keep the local systems in line.' etc, etc.

 

[DaveC426913]

I think @DaveC426913 gave the Millennium Falcon's official speed back in Post #8, as nonsensical as that is,

But that's not the joke. The joke is "What's a falcon". (In the same vein as "What's fusion?")

 

[TJonline]

What's a millenium? Lol.

 

[Melbourne Guy]

But that's not the joke. The joke is "What's a falcon". (In the same vein as "What's fusion?")

Yep, got that, but the 'speed' of the Millennium Falcon is in there, and it highlights that George Lucas cared not one whit for science!

 

[DaveC426913]

Yep, got that, but the 'speed' of the Millennium Falcon is in there, and it highlights that George Lucas cared not one whit for science!

Agree. Although my 'suspension of disbelief' says that:

1. We are seeing these stories translated into our language:

• They have planets and suns and time-keeping. They have a counterpart in the SWU. So Whatever word(s) they have for 'a thousand orbits' - or whatever - is helpfully changed for us in the translation to 'Millennium'.
• A 'falcon', on the other hand, is not something the SWU has at all. There can be no translation. At best, there could be an outright substitution.

It might be called the Millennium Mynock, but not the Millennium Falcon.

 

[Melbourne Guy]

Well I’m working on a project and exploring the science behind the scenes of Star Wars. The stuff that isn’t mentioned but exists and I was wondering what type of fusion fits the bill for them.

Hi @Maximum7, I was wondering if you've read up on George Lucas' thinking on his creative universe, it helps to frame how seriously to take things...and why there's a lot of irreverent responses on 'the science of Star Wars'. He was interviewed by Bill Moyers in 1999 for the release of The Phantom Menace and a couple of questions illustrate that even though George thought through many elements, even he was constrained by what he had crafted because he did not have the entire saga clear in his mind when he started:

GEORGE LUCAS: We were using a kind of technology which had to be completely worked out. How do these bubbles exist under there? Where do they come from? What do they use for energy? The whole culture has to be designed. What do they believe in? How do they operate? What are the economics of the culture. Most of it doesn’t appear in the movie, but you have to have thought it through, otherwise there’s — something always rings very untrue or phony about what it is that’s going on. And one of the things I struggle for is to create a kind of immaculate realism in a totally unreal and fantasy world. It’s a science that I can make up. But once I make up a rule, then I have to live with it.

BILL MOYERS: Such as? The world according to George.

GEORGE LUCAS: Well — I mean, one of the rules is that there’s sound in space.

(Excerpt from “Star Wars”)

GEORGE LUCAS: So there’s sound in space. I can’t suddenly have spaceships flying around without any sound anymore because I’ve already done it. I’ve established that as one of the rules of the — of the — of my galaxy and I have to live with that.

No amount of thinking is going to create a 'science' that allows sound in space, but nonetheless, it's there!

 

[Maximum7]

Hi @Maximum7, I was wondering if you've read up on George Lucas' thinking on his creative universe, it helps to frame how seriously to take things...and why there's a lot of irreverent responses on 'the science of Star Wars'. He was interviewed by Bill Moyers in 1999 for the release of The Phantom Menace and a couple of questions illustrate that even though George thought through many elements, even he was constrained by what he had crafted because he did not have the entire saga clear in his mind when he started:No amount of thinking is going to create a 'science' that allows sound in space, but nonetheless, it's there!

Thanks for the link! Yes they tried to explain sound in space with auditory sensors but the fine structure constant may be different in their galaxy.

 

[Melbourne Guy]

Yes they tried to explain sound in space with auditory sensors but the fine structure constant may be different in their galaxy.

Really, the fine structure constant? We're well into technobabble land if that's being invoked to account for sound in space

 

[Maximum7]

Really, the fine structure constant? We're well into technobabble land if that's being invoked to account for sound in space

Believe it or not aural sensors explain away sound in space (at least in the Legends material.). I think for storytelling purposes we hear sound; but I’m sure the characters don’t hear anything if in a vacuum

 

[DaveC426913]

I think for storytelling purposes we hear sound;

I think that is the right way to go.
Mark it up as "creative license in the telling of the story", i.e. not as an intrinsic part of the Star Wars Universe.

 

[Melbourne Guy]

Mark it up as "creative license in the telling of the story", i.e. not as an intrinsic part of the Star Wars Universe.

Can there be a difference, @DaveC426913? It's not like the Star Wars universe is 'out there somewhere', it only exists in the storytelling!

 

[Algr]

No amount of thinking is going to create a 'science' that allows sound in space, but nonetheless, it's there!

I've done it.

 

[DaveC426913]

Can there be a difference, @DaveC426913? It's not like the Star Wars universe is 'out there somewhere', it only exists in the storytelling!

If I guess correctly, the OP is writing a technical manual for the SWU. The premise of such a manual is that it lives within the universe it's describing. Put another way, it does not break down the fourth wall.

 

[Maximum7]

If I guess correctly, the OP is writing a technical manual for the SWU. The premise of such a manual is that it lives within the universe it's describing. Put another way, it does not break down the fourth wall.

Basically correct.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I am amused that people want scientific accuracy in a movies where a) the creators did not care about scientific accuracy, especially if it got in the way of the story, and b) uses a unit of length as if it were a unit of time.

 

[PeroK]

What I want to know is why the baddies, from orcs to stormtroopers, can never shoot straight? If you have FTL travel, you'd think you'd have an effective weapon to shoot at an enemy 10m away.

 

[PeroK]

The Guardian, as always, has the answer:

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/jan/04/why-cant-stormtroopers-shoot-straight

 

[BillTre]

O course, the same reasons underlying the apparent current Russian military incompetence could apply to storm troopers: Poor training, corruption, no competent mid-level NCOs, poor motivation.