What lessons can we learn from Grisha Perelman's story?

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter ModusPonens
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Documentary
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the story of Grisha Perelman, focusing on the emotional and philosophical implications of his departure from mathematics. Participants explore themes of motivation in academia, the dichotomy between love and financial incentives, and the human experience of mathematicians.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express sadness over Perelman's situation, suggesting that his departure from mathematics reflects a deeper emotional struggle.
  • There is a discussion about the motivations behind pursuing a PhD in mathematics, with some arguing that prestige and admiration often outweigh financial incentives.
  • One participant introduces the idea that "money" in academia can refer to non-monetary rewards such as tenure and recognition, rather than just financial wealth.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that mathematicians are complex individuals with mixed intentions, and that Perelman's bitterness may stem from the solitude and challenges faced at the boundaries of mathematics.
  • Some participants reflect on historical figures in mathematics, comparing Perelman's experience to those of Grassmann and Grothendieck, who also faced disillusionment with the mathematical community.
  • There is a belief expressed that the success of mathematicians may correlate with the purity of their intentions, suggesting that true passion for the subject is crucial for making significant contributions.
  • Examples of other mathematicians and scientists are cited to illustrate the importance of intrinsic motivation, with references to Erdős, Grothendieck, Newton, and Feynman.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the motivations behind Perelman's actions or the implications of his story. Multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of success and fulfillment in mathematics.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about motivations and emotional states are not explicitly defined, and the discussion reflects a range of personal interpretations and experiences related to academia.

ModusPonens
Hello

If, like me, you've been looking for a documentary on Perelman for a long time, here it it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng1W2KUHI2s

[youtube]Ng1W2KUHI2s[/youtube]

You can activate the English subtitles by clicking the "Captions" button.
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
I find that so sad. Here is my take on it:

You can claim you do what you do for love, or for money. If you claim both, you are lying to someone.
 
Deveno said:
I find that so sad. Here is my take on it:

You can claim you do what you do for love, or for money. If you claim both, you are lying to someone.

I don't think I understood your point. Is the fact that he no longer does mathematics what's sad?

No rational person does a PhD in mathematics for the money. A lot of people do it for the prestige and admiration rather than love for the discipline. But I don't know anybody who did it for money.
 
ModusPonens said:
I don't think I understood your point. Is the fact that he no longer does mathematics what's sad?

No rational person does a PhD in mathematics for the money. A lot of people do it for the prestige and admiration rather than love for the discipline. But I don't know anybody who did it for money.

It's a classic dichotomy. By "money" I don't actually mean cash, per se-there are lots of "surrogates" for financial wealth in the academic world: tenure, chair of a department, co-credit for important papers.

One often thinks of mathematicians as noble searchers for the truth. The truth is, they are human beings much like any other: a mixture of good and bad intentions, as varied as a smorgasbord.

And yes, what is sad is that Perelman became embittered by the very field he obviously loves. Almost a tragedy like those of the Greeks of antiquity. And, perhaps, a bit of instability at play here. Mathematics at its boundaries is a lonely place, and such solitude takes a heavy toll. He would not be the first great mathematician to have decided that the mathematical world had nothing to offer him: Grassmann and Grothendieck come immediately to mind.
 
Deveno said:
It's a classic dichotomy. By "money" I don't actually mean cash, per se-there are lots of "surrogates" for financial wealth in the academic world: tenure, chair of a department, co-credit for important papers.

One often thinks of mathematicians as noble searchers for the truth. The truth is, they are human beings much like any other: a mixture of good and bad intentions, as varied as a smorgasbord.

And yes, what is sad is that Perelman became embittered by the very field he obviously loves. Almost a tragedy like those of the Greeks of antiquity. And, perhaps, a bit of instability at play here. Mathematics at its boundaries is a lonely place, and such solitude takes a heavy toll. He would not be the first great mathematician to have decided that the mathematical world had nothing to offer him: Grassmann and Grothendieck come immediately to mind.

It's true that mathematicians are as much human as any other human. But I do think that the success of a mathematician is a lot more positively correlated with the purity of his intentions than people think. Maybe that's a romantic belief I have, idk. One thing that is common to all the people who really change a field of human endeavour, be it mathematics, physics, or comedy is a true passion about the subject.

Erdos didn't win the Fields medal that he deserved because he didn't even bother to reestablish the truth. Grothendieck's case is truly tragic, but he explains his motivation as pure childlike curiosity. Newton only published his work because another man urged him to do it. Feynman decided he wouldn't do anything that didn't interest him after the Manhatan project. And it was then that he made his best work. I'm sure there are plenty of cases I don't remember now. But these are the legends, the ones who are remembered because it's impossible to forget.

I wish Perelman had kept this in mind. Perhaps we would have him working on even more exciting things.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
5K
  • Sticky
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
8K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
5K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
6K