What Would a 4D Road Race Look Like?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the concept of visualizing a 4D road race within a 4+1D space, examining the challenges and implications of perceiving an additional physical dimension. Participants consider both theoretical and imaginative aspects of this idea, including potential representations and the limitations of human perception.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a 4D road race could be visualized by reinterpreting the up-down dimension to represent the new dimension, creating a track that appears as a curved rod in 3D space.
  • Another participant questions the feasibility of visualizing 4D spaces and suggests that human perception is limited to 3D slices, complicating the construction of a 4D world in the imagination.
  • Several participants reference the work "Diaspora" by Greg Egan as a potential source for understanding the visualization of extra dimensions, though the specifics of how Egan addresses this are not detailed in the summaries.
  • One participant notes that traditional methods of visualizing higher dimensions often involve displaying 3D slices of 4D objects, but suggests that there may be alternative approaches worth exploring.
  • Another participant mentions that "Diaspora" includes complex descriptions of transitioning from a 3+1D to a 4+1D environment, including a virtual museum dedicated to explaining the physical laws of 4D universes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the visualization of 4D spaces, with some suggesting specific works of fiction as references while others emphasize the inherent challenges in perceiving and representing additional dimensions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best methods for visualizing 4D concepts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the complexity of visualizing higher dimensions and the reliance on human perception, which is constrained to three dimensions. The discussion also highlights the potential for alternative visualization methods that have not been fully explored.

Hornbein
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I've been wondering what spaces with an extra physical dimension would look like. That is, instead of our 3+1D space it would be a 4+1D space.

In general, it can't be done. There is too much information for a human brain to handle. But some special cases can work. The main one I thought of was a 4D road race.

Now in our world a Formula One road race is mainly a 2D phenomenon. The track is more or less flat, so all that matters is forward-back and left-right. The up-down dimension could be reused. The way this would be done is to not show the up-down dimension at all, and instead use that for the new, novel, extra dimension. The road then would like like a curved rod instead of a strip. That curved rod can wind around in all three dimensions, so it can curve as freely up and down as it does left and right, or any combination of these two directions. The road would appear on the screen as a circle extending off into the distance, turning and twisting as it will. The driver has to be careful not to exceed the the friction of the road and skid off of it. Has this already been done?

The sky wouldn't be usually be visible, instead the round road would be surrounded all 360 degrees by buildings, trees, or whatever. The 4th dimension up-down dimension couldn't be seen directly but could be encoded topographically.

Off-road 4D is much harder. The trouble is that a human can see only 3D slices of the 4D world, and has to construct the 4D world from that, then find an optimal path through this 4D world constructed in the imagination.

It would be even more difficult that constructing a 3D world from 2D slices. Imagine a game where you could only see only a few one-pixel-wide vertical and a horizontal slits. It wouldn't be easy, but at least we know how to imagine a 3D world.
 
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Are you looking for works of science fiction or fantasy that deal with this visualisation? If so I suggest Diaspora by Greg Egan. If not and you're just looking for a discussion on what you've posted then the thread will have to be locked as it isn't in line with sub forum rules.
 
Ryan_m_b said:
Are you looking for works of science fiction or fantasy that deal with this visualisation? If so I suggest Diaspora by Greg Egan. If not and you're just looking for a discussion on what you've posted then the thread will have to be locked as it isn't in line with sub forum rules.
Put it anywhere you like.
 
Ryan_m_b said:
Are you looking for works of science fiction or fantasy that deal with this visualisation? If so I suggest Diaspora by Greg Egan. If not and you're just looking for a discussion on what you've posted then the thread will have to be locked as it isn't in line with sub forum rules.

So, how does Greg Egan visualize an extra dimension? I read about Diaspora but this specific topic wasn't discussed in the summaries.

Ever since Flatland (1895?) higher dimensional spaces have been visualized by not displaying one of the dimensions. A 3D slice of a 4D object is displayed. Nothing wrong with that, but there are other ways.

In general, displaying 4D objects can't be done because there is too much information. Possibly the best course is to look for constrained situations that can be taken advantage of.
 
It's been a while and to be honest the descriptions are complex and take up large parts of the story (the latter third anyway). It's definitely not with the flatland analogy, it takes pains to describe the journey from a 3+1d environment to a 4+1d. One chapter features a virtual museum whose exhibits are all dedicated to explain the physical laws and features of 4 dimensional universes. I suggest checking it out to really find out.
 

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