Why do we know the particle/quantum field theory is phys of symmetries

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the role of symmetries in particle physics and quantum field theory (QFT), exploring why these theories are often described as being fundamentally based on symmetries. Participants examine the implications of symmetries for gauge theories and the existence of conserved quantities, while questioning the necessity of symmetries in physical theories.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that particle physics and QFT are fundamentally linked to symmetries, citing Noether's theorem as a foundational principle.
  • Others argue that while symmetries provide elegance and beauty to theories, it is possible to conceive of physics without them.
  • A participant questions why the focus on symmetries is specific to particle physics and QFT, suggesting that similar principles apply to classical physics.
  • Another participant notes that symmetries imply the existence of conserved quantities, which are observed in both quantum and classical contexts, indicating that investigating symmetries is a fruitful approach.
  • One contribution emphasizes the necessity of invariance under various arbitrary choices (e.g., origin in space, time, velocity) to derive conservation laws, such as energy and angular momentum.
  • There is a contention regarding the possibility of formulating QFT without symmetries, with some asserting it is not feasible.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of symmetries in physics, with some asserting that symmetries are essential for QFT while others maintain that it is possible to develop theories without them. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these differing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various principles and theorems, but there is no consensus on the necessity of symmetries in all physical theories. The discussion highlights the complexity of the relationship between symmetries and physical laws without reaching a definitive conclusion.

ndung200790
Messages
519
Reaction score
0
Why do we know that particle physics/quantum field theory is a physics of symmetries?What leads we to the gauge symmetries of all interactions?.Why we can not assume a physics without symmetry?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Of course you can do it without symmetries. Its just most beautiful and elegant that way.

Thanks
Bill
 
ndung200790 said:
Why do we know that particle physics/quantum field theory is a physics of symmetries?
This comes from Noether's theorem.
 
ndung200790 said:
Why do we know that particle physics/quantum field theory is a physics of symmetries?What leads we to the gauge symmetries of all interactions?.Why we can not assume a physics without symmetry?

I'm a bit puzzled by this question.

Since you're asking specifically in reference to "particle physics/quantum field theory", does that mean that you have no issues with the concept of symmetries being used in classical physics and other areas? If so, then this makes no sense, since the SAME principle and idea are at work here. DaleSpam has eluded to such a principle.

So what is it about "particle physics/quantum field theory" that made you ask such a question, but not for classical physics?

Zz.
 
ndung200790 said:
Why do we know that particle physics/quantum field theory is a physics of symmetries?What leads we to the gauge symmetries of all interactions?.Why we can not assume a physics without symmetry?

A symmetry implies the existence of a conserved quantity, and we know by observation and experiment that the world (both quantum and classical, as ZZ points out) is full of conserved quantities. That's a pretty good hint that investigating symmetries will be a fruitful way of investigating the world, and so far experience has supported that approach.

That doesn't necessarily make it the only approach, but as long as it works and no one has found a better approach, it's going to be the one that's most widely used.
 
ndung200790 said:
Why do we know that particle physics/quantum field theory is a physics of symmetries?What leads we to the gauge symmetries of all interactions?.Why we can not assume a physics without symmetry?

If you were starting out to make a theory you would like it to work no matter where you choose to set the origin in space (x=0), whenever you choose the zero of time to be (t=0) whatever you set the zero of velocity of the frame of reference to be, wherever you set the direction of angle of zero to be and wherever you chose to set the zero of the EM field etc. This is necessary if you think about it as we make these choices of where the zeros are and they are arbitrary. These are the symmetries of the theories.

By making the model describing the physics invariant under all these choices leads naturally to the conservation of certain quantities. For example
Invariance under time translation leads to conservation of energy
Invariance under rotation leads to conversation of angular momentum
EM gauge invariance leads to conservation of charge
Etc.

Which is in line with what we find in experiments. It's pretty amazing!
 
bhobba said:
Of course you can do it without symmetries. Its just most beautiful and elegant that way.

Thanks
Bill

No, we can not do QFT without symmetries.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: 1 person

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 47 ·
2
Replies
47
Views
7K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K