russ_watters said:
But that's what you started this thread about - saying that that used to be a popular goal. It really wasn't.
Well I still think I have a valid point in saying what is considered muscular in this time and age is a lot less than what was considered muscular previously. Look at models today and 20 years ago.
Look at todays celebrities that are considered hot. They are a lot less masculine than what they used to be. Unless I have a totally twisted picture of the 60's-80's. That is quite possible since I was born 84.
russ_watters said:
Arnold was dedicated, sure, but he was also on sterroids, as are most Mr. Universe types. Few people achieve that physique - fewer still without drugs. And I question whether such a physique - even without the drugs - is actually healthy. Specifically, Mr. Universe types typically don't have a very high level of cariovascular fitness because it burns energy that otherwise could be used for making muscles. I knew a handful of Navy SEALS (my standard for the top physical condition that is healthy) and they have far less muscle mass than a Mr. Universe type.
It's also important to remember we're talking about something that most people to for health reasons, while Mr. Universe types (and even navy seals) do it because it's their job. Toby McQuire probably did it in 3-6 months, but I'm sure he spent 20 hours a week in the gym.
Well there is plenty of evidence pointing towards steroids beeing very safe to use. I could expand on this if anyone is interested. There is a wealth of solid info on the various bodybuilding boards on the net.
With that said steroids is far from beeing a bodybuilding specific problem. Its just that it isn't so visualy obvious in martial arts or olympic sports. I don't think any elite atlethe in explosive sports can be competitive without steroids and its seldom I hear of sprinters dropping dead because of doping issues.
I agree fully though that a EXTREMELY muscular body is not healthy. It must put a very heavy strain on the heart to keep blood flowing through obscene ammounts of muscle mass. But I think the avarage bodybuilder is WAY WAY WAY more healthy than the avarage joe. Mostly because bodybuilders pay a lot of attention what they eat . A guy around 6 feet tall that weights around 220 ibs with 8% bodyfat following a healthy diet and working out often is probably a very healthy dude even though he has a abundance of muscle.
Its a old myth that cardiovascular training is a obstacle in gaining muscle. A myth modern powerlifting(or well to be precise old soviet/eastern block strenght science that is starting to get popular in the west) has totally destroyed. Its just that bodybuilding is a sport that is still in the 70's scientificly so some people still think its true. Cardio is very much benificial to muscle gains.
Just about all bodybuilders do a lot of cardio, either to stay in shape or get into shape. Myself 6 months of the year I walk 10 kilometers each day, do high intensity intervall training for 15 minutes on the stairmaster after hitting the weights 3-4 times a week, throw in some skiprope once or twice a week ect.
I could only think that people with the most extreme metabolisms or the very stupid would avoid cardio because it burns kcal. When eating 5-7 times a day its extremely easy to compensate for any negative Calorie balance caused by cardio.
russ_watters said:
Again, with the thread title being about what's fashionable, I have never perceived it to be fashionable to be any more built than Tobey McQuire in Spiderman. The one thing that I think has changed is that the Mr. Universe/bodybuilder look has gone from being acceptable to being not acceptable because of its connection with sterroids and the realization that it can be damaging to the body even without sterroids. But I don't think it ever was "fashionable".
Just think of markus schenkenberg, fabio and other previously famous celebreties. They where FAR more muscular than Tobey.
I should not have mentioned arnold and ferrigno since they where never mainstreem. But I notice more buff physiques in older movies. Today hollywood even tell people like Vin Disel and The rock that they have to slim down if they want to get into movies and hell Vin was just big not huge when he got into acting.
