Why smaller particles come together

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the formation of subatomic particles shortly after the Big Bang, specifically why protons and neutrons came together before electrons, and the forces that facilitated this process. Participants explore the implications of particle mass, charge, and the nature of fundamental forces in a high-energy environment.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why protons and neutrons formed before electrons, suggesting mass might play a role but seeking clarification on the forces involved.
  • Another participant explains that protons and neutrons are bound by the strong nuclear force, which is stronger than the electromagnetic force that binds electrons to protons, implying temperature thresholds for particle stability.
  • Concerns are raised about the short-range nature of forces acting on small particles and the conditions under which they would settle into stable forms.
  • Experimental evidence regarding binding energies is mentioned, with an inference that particles are unstable at certain energy levels, leading to discussions about extrapolating conditions from the past.
  • A participant inquires about the relationship between charge and mass, questioning the nature of charge and its origins, as well as the forces that hold charge together.
  • One reply states that the physics required to fully answer these questions is currently unknown and lies beyond accessible experimental energy levels.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the formation of particles and the forces involved, with no consensus reached on the underlying reasons or mechanisms. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the fundamental nature of charge and the forces acting at high energy levels.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in current understanding, particularly concerning the forces at play in high-energy environments and the nature of charge, which remain subjects of ongoing inquiry.

A Dhingra
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--- >> a question…… it is said that a few seconds after the big bang , the subatomic particles gradually lost energy and came together…….then why the protons and neutrons came together first and not the electrons ?……….. i thought ,this is possibly due to their greater mass….. but further dividing them , they are also made up of smaller units…… why these smaller units came came together…….. the main question is why the smallest particles came together and turned to the form they are in now…… obviously at very very high energy of that time they could exist individually………then what were the forces that caused them to come together……. ?

……………….. as far as the forces on small particles are concerned they are short range and with enough energy in them why would they settle... and if those forces came to bind them .. then where such forces arose from..
 
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Read Steven Weinberg's "The First Three Minutes".
 
A Dhingra said:
then why the protons and neutrons came together first and not the electrons ?

Protons and neutrons attract each other with the strong nuclear force, whereas electrons only attract to protons with electromagnetism. The strong nuclear force is stronger than EM, so the temperature you need to cause nuclei to fall apart is much higher. To heat things enough so that nuclei fall apart, you need tens of millions of degrees, whereas atoms will fall part with a few thousand.

……………….. as far as the forces on small particles are concerned they are short range and with enough energy in them why would they settle... and if those forces came to bind them .. then where such forces arose from..

Why the forces are what they are is a much more difficult question, and it's something that isn't fully understood. For things like nuclear fusion, you really don't need to understand why to see what happens since you can just heat up a reactor and see what happens.

For much, much hotter temperatures beyond current experiments, you need to start understand the reasons why things are what they are, and at that point you hit the limits of our current knowledge.
 
Binding energies. We have experimental evidence that tells us how much energy it takes to tear neutrons, etal, apart. We infer from this particles are unstable at these energy levels. We extrapolate backwards to the point in time conditions [temperature] were sufficient to preclude them from forming and remaining stable.
 
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if i combine the property of possession of charge with the size of the mass...
is there any regular patter between them...

and what is charge actually and where does it come from...
as far as i have studied in my books , charges can be separated by polarization ... so what should be the smallest point of charge ... and what kind of mass it should posses...

here wat should be the force that holds the charge together...
 
anyone...
 
The physics necessary to answer your question are unknown. It lays at energy levels that are not yet experimentally accesible.
 
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