Wittgenstein's Perspectives on Mathematics: A Critical Examination

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on Ludwig Wittgenstein's perspectives on mathematics, particularly his critiques of conventional mathematical foundations and his constructivist and finitistic tendencies. Participants explore his views on what constitutes a mathematical statement and the implications for mathematical reasoning and proof.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note Wittgenstein's challenge to the traditional understanding of mathematical statements, emphasizing his finitistic approach that requires verifiability through finite means.
  • One participant explains that Wittgenstein does not consider certain mathematical statements, like the decimal expansion of pi containing a specific sequence, to be valid due to their reliance on infinite constructs.
  • Another participant highlights that Wittgenstein views proofs, such as those by induction, as applicable only to specific instances rather than universally applicable to all integers.
  • There is a discussion about whether Wittgenstein proposes a new set of axioms, with some participants asserting that he fundamentally opposes the idea of a foundational framework for mathematics.
  • One participant references a source that describes mathematics as a "motley of techniques of proof," suggesting that a self-evident foundation is unnecessary.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of Wittgenstein's views, with no consensus on the implications of his philosophy or the validity of his critiques. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the nature of mathematical statements and the necessity of foundational frameworks.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of Wittgenstein's philosophy, indicating that further exploration of his works may be necessary to grasp the nuances of his arguments.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying philosophy of mathematics, Wittgenstein's works, or the foundations of mathematical theory.

disregardthat
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I recently read "Wittgenstein's lectures on the foundations of mathematics", a book written from notes of students of wittgenstein during his series of lectures on mathematics. I found it interesting, and was wondering if anyone has read it and their thoughts of it, as well as if anyone are familiar with his view on mathematics.

He challenges the commonly understood notions of mathematics, and particular what a mathematical statement is. He has definite constructivist and finitistic tendencies, and spends a lot of time arguing against formal frameworks such as - and in particular - set theory as a foundation of mathematics.


Any thoughts or objections to his point of view?
 
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What do you mean by 'finitistic tendencies'?
 
He argues that a mathematical statement should be verifiable by finitistic means. By verifiable he does not mean deducible as in deducible from a set of axioms. Rather; for example, mathematical statement of natural numbers can only say something about a finite amount of natural numbers. This is the essence of his finitism. It doesn't mean that he don't agree with talking about anything but a specific finite set of integers however.

Example: He does not consider "the decimal expansion of pi contains the sequence 777" a mathematical statement because of this reason.

Example: Fermats last theorem states that for all integers x,y and z, x^n+y^n != z^n where n is an integer larger than 2. He does not consider this a mathematical statement. Rather, he looks to the hypothetical proof of this, and says that any mathematical statement we could make in this instance is that we have specific integers x, y and z and n > 2, THEN we can say without calculation that x^n + y^n != z^n. The theorem adds something to our calculus, we can conclude that two numbers are unequal in a different way than before (in this example; x^n+y^n and z^n).

Example: Proof by induction does not prove a statement for all integers. Rather, for a specific integer n, the proof by induction works as a scheme for the proof of this particular instance, namely the statement for n. We take the proof of induction as an addition to our calculus, a new way of concluding something about a number.

Example: There is no ordering by value of Q in a sequence. He stresses that this says nothing about the collection of rational numbers, he argues there is no such thing as a collection of the rational numbers. Rather, he takes a proof of this, (by contradiction; for any two consecutive numbers in the sequence we can find an number which is in between), and says that what this proves is that any specific sequence of elements of Q will lack the property of being an ordering by value. We add this thereom to our calculus, a new way of determining a fact about a specific sequence of rational numbers.
 
Last edited:
disregardthat said:
He argues that a mathematical statement should be verifiable by finitistic means. By verifiable he does not mean deducible as in deducible from a set of axioms.
By those standards, does he propose a new set of axioms or what?
 
Willowz said:
By those standards, does he propose a new set of axioms or what?

As I said, he fundamentally opposes any fundamental framework of axioms as a groundwork of mathematics. Read

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/wittgenstein-mathematics/

if you are interested. Maybe we can have a discussion.

Given that mathematics is a “MOTLEY of techniques of proof” , it does not require a foundation and it cannot be given a self-evident foundation . Since set theory was invented to provide mathematics with a foundation, it is, minimally, unnecessary.

(I have removed the excess of references in the quote, but you can find it in the link I provided)

Note that I don't claim to undestand his philosophy of mathematics in great detail, but I do find it compelling.
 
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disregardthat said:
if you are interested. Maybe we can have a discussion.
Quite interested. But, I have no idea where to start. Early, Intermediate, or latter W?
 

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