Possible to create gravitational fields

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SUMMARY

This discussion explores the possibility of creating gravitational fields by manipulating other fundamental forces, particularly through electric and magnetic fields. Participants highlight that gravity is the weakest and most resistant force to unification with the other fundamental forces. The conversation references H. E. Puthoff's theory, which suggests that gravity may be an induced effect related to zero-point fluctuations of the vacuum, rather than a separate fundamental force. The need for a unified theory of everything is emphasized, indicating that gravity and other forces could ultimately be described within the same framework.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of fundamental forces in physics, including gravity, electromagnetism, and zero-point fluctuations.
  • Familiarity with H. E. Puthoff's theories and their implications in gravitational research.
  • Knowledge of the concept of energy density and its relationship to gravitational fields.
  • Basic grasp of high school physics principles, particularly electric and magnetic fields.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research H. E. Puthoff's paper on zero-point fluctuations and their relation to gravity.
  • Study the concept of gravitational mass as derived from electromagnetic interactions.
  • Explore unified field theories and their implications for understanding gravity.
  • Investigate the role of vacuum fluctuations in modern physics and their potential effects on gravitational theory.
USEFUL FOR

Physics students, researchers in theoretical physics, and anyone interested in the intersection of electromagnetism and gravitational theories.

Universe_Man
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Do you think that it would eventually be possible to create gravitational fields by manipulating other fundamental forces in the universe? Like, maybe a magnetic field of sufficient strength could resemble a gravitational field?

I apologize if I seem ignorant to something well known, I'm still learning high school physics. I just like to throw random ideas around.
 
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A good and interesting question, UM. BTW, welcome to PF, plenty of folks smarter than me hang out here and are capable of better answers than I have to offer. That said, you must suffer through my muddling answer.

Gravity is a unique force in the universe. It was the first to emerge [according to conventional theory], the weakest of the four fundamental forces, and most resistant to being combined with the rest of the 'big four'. See this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_force
 
Universe_Man said:
Do you think that it would eventually be possible to create gravitational fields by manipulating other fundamental forces in the universe? Like, maybe a magnetic field of sufficient strength could resemble a gravitational field?.
Of course, if you could set up a very intense electric field, for example, this field would have an energy density and thus an equivalent mass density that would have a gravitational field associated with it. Good luck.:smile:
 
Electrical fields come in 2 flavours (+/-) and usually balance each other out with little left over, gravity comes in only one force and so does nothing else (apart from distort time). Maybe the clue is in that if we could manipulate time we could alter gravity.
 
Tzemach said:
Electrical fields come in 2 flavours (+/-) and usually balance each other out with little left over, gravity comes in only one force and so does nothing else (apart from distort time). Maybe the clue is in that if we could manipulate time we could alter gravity.

Er.. be VERY careful here. Electric CHARGE may come in the different "flavors", but electric field does not! Write the E field for a point + charge, and for a point - charge. It is identical except for the the direction of the field as dictated by convention. These are not different "flavors", just different vectorial directions.

Zz.
 
Sorry my phraseology was wrong but the two types of charge do tend to balance out. The Earth's electrical field for example is so evenly balanced it can deflect particles or rotate a compass needle but do little else. Earth's gravity is strong enough to hold the moon in its orbit and maintain an atmosphere for us to breathe.
 
Tzemach said:
Sorry my phraseology was wrong but the two types of charge do tend to balance out. The Earth's electrical field for example is so evenly balanced it can deflect particles or rotate a compass needle but do little else. Earth's gravity is strong enough to hold the moon in its orbit and maintain an atmosphere for us to breathe.

OK, so I will definitely come across as being picky here, but the compass needle isn't affected by the "Earth's electrical field".

Zz.
 
That's right I agree that it might be considered "picky" but in the interest of accuracy I accept the correction.
 
Universe_Man said:
Do you think that it would eventually be possible to create gravitational fields by manipulating other fundamental forces in the universe? Like, maybe a magnetic field of sufficient strength could resemble a gravitational field?

Hi, interesting question indeed. I would think, if there is some unified theory of everything, then gravity as well as the other fundamental forces should eventually be descibed by the same framework. Then, the magnetic field does not resemble gravity, it is gravity. Or, there is no point in distinguishing between them.



B.
 
  • #10
Puthoff

I subscribe the last post by Hossi...

But maybe you're thinking about Puthoff-like works, isn't it?

http://link.aps.org/abstract/PRA/v39/p2333"
H. E. Puthoff
Phys. Rev. A 39, 2333–2342 (1989)

"Sakharov has proposed a suggestive model in which gravity is not a separately existing fundamental force, but rather an induced effect associated with zero-point fluctuations (ZPF’s) of the vacuum, in much the same manner as the van der Waals and Casimir forces. In the spirit of this proposal we develop a point-particle–ZPF interaction model that accords with and fulfills this hypothesis. In the model gravitational mass and its associated gravitational effects are shown to derive in a fully self-consistent way from electromagnetic-ZPF-induced particle motion (Zitterbewegung). Because of its electromagnetic-ZPF underpinning, gravitational theory in this form constitutes an already unified theory."

I know that this article is often cited talking about http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/main.htm" ...



note: Puthoff's theory, like Heim's theory, doesn't need https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=119021" to explain mass... In the Puthoff's paper mass is related to the kinetic energy of the Zitterbeweging particle (parton he said)... This description don't convice me at all, but it would be borne in mind investigating quantum gravity vacuum...
 
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