Help with Problem on Photons and Atoms | Cohen-Tannoudji et al.

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem from "Photons and Atoms" by Cohen-Tannoudji et al., focusing on the relationship between charge density and current in a system of charged particles. The original poster seeks to demonstrate a specific equation involving the time derivative of charge density and the divergence of current.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to apply known mathematical identities related to divergence and time derivatives to the problem. Some participants suggest using product and chain rules to manipulate the equations involving delta functions. There is also a question raised about the implications of the derived expressions, particularly regarding the conditions under which the right-hand side equals zero.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights and suggestions for approaching the problem. The original poster has made progress in their reasoning but is still seeking clarification on certain aspects of the derivation and its implications.

Contextual Notes

The original poster has clarified that the positions of the particles are time-dependent, which is crucial for the problem's setup. There is an ongoing exploration of the mathematical properties of delta functions in this context.

Jimmy Snyder
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This is from page 1 of "Photons and Atoms" by Cohen-Tannoudji et. al.

Given a set of particles of charge [itex]q_{\alpha}[/itex] and position [itex]r_{\alpha}(t)[/itex] the charge density [itex]\rho[/itex] and current j are given by
[tex]\rho(r,t) = \Sigma_{\alpha} q_{\alpha}\delta[r - r_{\alpha}(t)][/tex]
[tex]j(r,t) = \Sigma_{\alpha} q_{\alpha} v_{\alpha} \delta[r - r_{\alpha}(t)][/tex]

Show that:

[tex]\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\rho(r,t) + \nabla \cdot \j(r,t) = 0[/tex]

I don't know how to get started. The only thing I know of that looks like it might help is:

[tex]x\delta'(x) = -\delta(x)[/tex]

But I don't see how to apply it here.
 
Last edited:
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Just use the following (product and chain) rules :

[tex]\vec \nabla \cdot (f\vec v)=(\vec \nabla f)\vec v+f(\vec \nabla \cdot \vec v)[/tex]

[tex]\frac{\partial}{\partial t} f(\vec r(t))=(\vec \nabla f)\cdot\frac{\partial \vec r}{\partial t}[/tex]
And it's be a one or two line proof.

Only thing is you get things like [tex]\vec \nabla \delta(\vec r-\vec r_\alpha(t))[/tex]. I`m not really sure myself what that would be, but just leave it like that and you're fine.
 
Galileo said:
Just use the following (product and chain) rules :

[tex]\vec \nabla \cdot (f\vec v)=(\vec \nabla f)\vec v+f(\vec \nabla \cdot \vec v)[/tex]

[tex]\frac{\partial}{\partial t} f(\vec r(t))=(\vec \nabla f)\cdot\frac{\partial \vec r}{\partial t}[/tex]
And it's be a one or two line proof.

Only thing is you get things like [tex]\vec \nabla \delta(\vec r-\vec r_\alpha(t))[/tex]. I`m not really sure myself what that would be, but just leave it like that and you're fine.

Thanks for looking at this Galileo. I made a mistake when I posted it. The positions of the particles are a function of time [itex]r_{\alpha}(t)[/itex]. I edited the original and I also repeat the corrected formulas here:

[tex]\rho(r,t) = \Sigma_{\alpha} q_{\alpha}\delta[r - r_{\alpha}(t)][/tex]
[tex]j(r,t) = \Sigma_{\alpha} q_{\alpha} v_{\alpha} \delta[r - r_{\alpha}(t)][/tex]

If I apply the partials to the formulas and use your suggestions, I get the following:

[tex]\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\rho(r,t) = \Sigma_{\alpha} q_{\alpha} \frac{\partial}{\partial t}\delta[r - r_{\alpha}(t)] = -\Sigma_{\alpha} q_{\alpha} (v_{\alpha} \nabla \delta(r - r_{\alpha}(t)))[/tex]
[tex]\nabla j(r,t) = \Sigma_{\alpha} q_{\alpha} (\nabla v_{\alpha} \delta(r - r_{\alpha}(t)) + v_{\alpha} \nabla \delta(r - r_{\alpha}(t)))][/tex]

And so:
[tex]\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\rho(r,t) + \nabla \cdot \j(r,t) = \Sigma_{\alpha} q_{\alpha} \nabla v_{\alpha} \delta(r - r_{\alpha}(t))[/tex]

I'm not there yet, but this is a great stride forward.
 
Last edited:
jimmysnyder said:
And so:
[tex]\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\rho(r,t) + \nabla \cdot \j(r,t) = \Sigma_{\alpha} q_{\alpha} \nabla v_{\alpha} \delta(r - r_{\alpha}(t))[/tex]

Now, why is the right-hand side equal to zero?
 
George Jones said:
Now, why is the right-hand side equal to zero?
I figured that out on my way home from work. Thanks to Galileo and to George. I remember your help with GR earlier.
 

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