Immortality

[_Mayday_]

Hello,

Would it be possible to clone a whole new human body and then transfer your existing brain to the clones body. Would that be like having a fresh new body? Would you be able to live forever if you repeated the process? I'm sure that there would be many complications. However if they managed to clone a new human body and then put your old brain into the new body would it be like having a new body with the same knowledge that the old person had?

thanks

[dirk_mec1]

Hello,

Would you be able to live forever if you repeated the process? I'm sure that there would be many complications.
thanks

Yes there is, how about the telomeres? Each time a cel division takes place it becomes smaller.

[tiny-tim]

Arnold Brown (Scottish comedian):

My ambition is to be … immortal!

… … so far … … so good … ! :biggrin:

[CRGreathouse]

Would it be possible to clone a whole new human body and then transfer your existing brain to the clones body.

Our technology's not there, but this certainly seems a priori possible. The hard parts would be (1) transferring the brain without killing the host body (which would need to have its own brain removed) or the brain to be transferred, and (2) attaching the brain to the new body 'properly'.

Ethically, this is extremely problematic because you're be creating then killing a human.

Would that be like having a fresh new body?

No. The telomeres in the new body would be just as short as in the old body. Physically the new body is new, but genetically it's no younger.

Would you be able to live forever if you repeated the process?

No. There seems to be no advantage to the procedure. If there was a way to limit telomere degradation it might work, but then why not just limit it in the original body?

However if they managed to clone a new human body and then put your old brain into the new body would it be like having a new body with the same knowledge that the old person had?

The brain would have the same knowledge and such, though I would expect agility to suffer profoundly: the new body won't quite match the old.

[BoomBoom]

Would it be possible to clone a whole new human body and then transfer your existing brain to the clones body.

What would you do with the clone's brain??

To do such a thing is not even remotely ethical! :surprised

Cloning a human is one thing and I have no issues with it, but a clone IS a living human being and deserves all rights of any other human.

[LowlyPion]

Our technology's not there, but this certainly seems a priori possible. The hard parts would be (1) transferring the brain without killing the host body (which would need to have its own brain removed) or the brain to be transferred, and (2) attaching the brain to the new body 'properly'.

I have serious doubts about the possibility of it myself. The brain processes the electrochemical and chemical messages and responds by similar means with the rest of the body and aside from matching up the appropriate neurons and resident endocrine components, there is the matter of synchronizing the sensory input and output signals to be compatible enough to even begin to develop a new adaption for these new "signal strengths" or frequencies or durations - to modify the layered learned responses to sensory stimuli that have been built up over the years from birth. Couple that with unquantifiable psychological potential perils for confusion, or even terror, that one individual might feel in being so disoriented and out of control, and I just have to believe that it's too complicated to consider that it could be accomplished in procedure with a short enough time frame that would offer much prospect of success.

And as you said then there's the ethics of the thing to begin with.

[nottheone]

This IS possible for many reasons.

There is no reason that the cloned body would have shorter talomeres, I don't know where this idea comes from but even if it were true it could be prevented several ways.

The first thing that needs to be done is nerve regeneration and that is coming.

There is no reason that the cloned body has to be cloned from you, this requires conquering rejection, also coming. In fact, you don't need a clone because there are always some people going brain dead with perfectly good bodies.

There is a genetic defect that causes people to be born without a brain, this could be induced in the clone to bypass ethical concerns.

On the downside, your brain wouldn't be any younger and while it doesn't seem to age like the body in some people, it would put a limit on doing this probably only once.

The real path to immortaliy is halting and then reversing the aging process. I believe that if this is possible it will be discovered this century, all we have to do is live long enough.

[Evo]

Don't forget the "clone" as it is done today would need to be born and then raised to the proper size. By that time it would have definitely become his/her own person in every right.

[rebeka]

The brain tissue would probably become cancerous over time, which could also spread to the cloned body. Although the fresh food for the brain would probably make it last longer. If we had the medical technology to do the transfer though we could probably cure the cancer and mend any degradation. What about memory capacity how much can we store up there, would we just watch memories fade with time, sort of like we do now.......... We could add hard drives with quantum capacities. To eliminate many of the problems of aligning the old neural pathways to the new nervous system you would want to selectively remove certain areas of the brain as opposed to the whole damn thing. That would also eliminate many of the degenerate sections of the brain and allow for more resources being diverted to the repair of the old tissue. Why would you want a clone? You could genetically engineer a new more perfect body using fresh DNA and grow it in a test tube. During the process you could have computers connect to it's neural pathways and have it exercise until it reaches maturation. Areas of the brain required for cognitive thought could be growth inhibited and filled with a temporary goo to keep the area warm. Other areas responsible for math and the such could be worked by computers attached to create a biological math co-processor.

I'm working on it boyz, I hope I get there before I die or something silly like that.

Anyone wanna hear 'bout my Dragon I'm going to genetically engineer and control telepathically. Her favorite treat is going to be............................

[BoomBoom]

There is no reason that the cloned body would have shorter talomeres, I don't know where this idea comes from ....


This idea comes from the fact that adult animals which have been cloned DO have shorter telomeres.


But going back to my earlier point, it would be absolutely barbaric to raise a cloned child only to extract it's brain for replacement once he/she reached maturity.

The whole concept is absurd... :yuck:

[BoundByAxioms]

This idea comes from the fact that adult animals which have been cloned DO have shorter telomeres.


But going back to my earlier point, it would be absolutely barbaric to raise a cloned child only to extract it's brain for replacement once he/she reached maturity.

The whole concept is absurd... :yuck:

What if the clone's development were altered so that it would not develop a brain? What if the exact sequence of necessary developmental hormones were added to the body, so that its organs could develop (with lots of outside help, of course) and the "mature" brain were placed into the clone body when it was ready. There would be a baby's body with the brain of someone who has already lived through a lifetime. I'm sure I'm overlooking things, but this is just a thought.

[vanesch]

What are you going to do with your own, degraded, senile brain ?

[tiny-tim]

What are you going to do with your own, degraded, senile brain ?

Are you putting in a bid? :biggrin:

[bioquest]

I think it may be possible eventually to regenerate/regrow pieces of brain using stem cells or something (maybe not correctly) but yah it's like you were completely disregarding aging of the brain unless you were talking about connecting brains which I don't think is possible right now? or using non-biological brain replacement which doesn't seem possible right now?

[nottheone]

Don't forget the "clone" as it is done today would need to be born and then raised to the proper size. By that time it would have definitely become his/her own person in every right.

Not if it is anencephalic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anencephalic

[nottheone]

This idea comes from the fact that adult animals which have been cloned DO have shorter telomeres. ....[QUOTE]


Just because clones have that problem now doesn't mean that they always will. The only way that becomes an insurmountable problem is if something changes in our genes as we age and there is no way to clone from our youth genetic blueprint. And again, this can be bypassed by a genetic sample when we are young.

[QUOTE=BoomBoom;1853810]...But going back to my earlier point, it would be absolutely barbaric to raise a cloned child only to extract it's brain for replacement once he/she reached maturity....[QUOTE]

As I said earlier, if it doesn't have a brain you don't have to remove one.

[QUOTE=BoomBoom;1853810]...The whole concept is absurd... :yuck:

Let me know how you feel about it if and when you are old enough and unlucky enough to have a failing painful body and a sharp youthful brain.

[Doc Al]

What are you going to do with your own, degraded, senile brain ?
Yeah, I'd want a fresh brain. This one's pretty much shot.

[Moonbear]

This thread has gone from the bizarre to the ridiculous.

I'll clear up a few points and then the thread is locked.

1) The clinical definition of death is BRAIN death. If the brain is still alive, you're not considered dead yet.

2) If you manage to keep the rest of your body in good enough shape to survive to a ripe old age, neurodegenerative diseases or stroke will eventually get you...the brain isn't any sort of special case...it ages just like the rest of the body.

3) Yes, a cloned organism still has a brain.

4) In cases of anencephaly, the chromosomal and developmental damage leading to such a severe birth defect are associated with a lot of other severe problems in development. Really, it's a defect of the entire nervous system. Not to mention how would you keep such a body alive until adulthood to fit in an adult brain when this condition is fatal?

5) And, lastly, the whole notion of transplanting a brain is so far beyond reality as to be science fiction, so there's really no point in having this discussion at all.