Understanding Thermodynamic Processes in a Piston-Cylinder System

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a thermodynamic problem involving a piston-cylinder system with a gas. The problem outlines various states of the gas as it undergoes changes in pressure, volume, and temperature due to external forces and thermal contact.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the nature of thermodynamic transformations and the assumptions of quasistatic and reversible processes. Questions arise regarding the application of relevant laws and how to initiate calculations related to pressure and work done on the gas.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered insights into the laws applicable to the problem and suggested starting points for calculations. There is an ongoing exploration of the relationships between pressure, volume, and work, with participants questioning their understanding of the concepts involved.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of potential confusion regarding terminology and laws, indicating that some participants may not be familiar with the specific concepts referenced in the discussion. The original poster expresses uncertainty about how to begin the problem-solving process.

cdhotfire
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Okay, i found this problem to be pretty tough, maybe someone can lend me a hand.

there's a container with a piston, and there's a gas on the bottom of the piston.

State 1
[itex]A=1.2 x 10^{-2}m^{2}[/itex]
[itex]T_1=0^{\circ{}}C[/itex]
[itex]V_1=1.5 x 10^{-3}m^{3}[/itex]
[itex]P_1=1.02 x 10^{5}Pa[/itex]

State 2
there's a 150kg weight ontop to the piston, wish causes the piston to go down.
[itex]T_2=0^{\circ{}}C[/itex]

State 3
The cylinder is brought in contact with boiling water raising temperature to [itex]100^{\circ{}}C[/itex]
The weight goes up, the gas pushes up the piston, and the piston pushes up the weight.
[itex]T_3=100^{\circ{}}C[/itex]

State 4
The block is removed, and the gas expands to fill the container, which is a cylinder.
[itex]T_4=100^{\circ{}}C[/itex]

All I need is how to get this started I think I can get it going from there.

The truth is I don't even know how to start this, looked at it for like 30 minutes, maybe I missed something.

But any help would be appreciated.

Thxs.
 
Last edited:
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You need to understand the fact that any thermodynamical transformations that take place in the gas (probably assumed ideal) are assumed quasistatical and reversible.So u can apply the law of Mendeleev and Clapeyron.

You didn't say what the problem was asking you... :-p

Daniel.
 
Hmm, does not seem I learned those laws, onless my book and teacher are calling them by different names. O, and I asked to get this started, for example finding pressure on state 2. From what I see, is that the 150 kg weight does work on the gas? I might be wrong. But if so it does 1470 J, so I got Work. Work is [itex]\Delta W= P \Delta V[/itex]. I can see that pressure goes up, and volume goes down. But I have no clue as in how to find either of those.
 
Last edited:
O and thank you for replying. :smile:
 
cdhotfire said:
Hmm, does not seem I learned those law, onless my book and teacher are calling them by different names. O, and I asked to get this started, for example finding pressure on state 2. From what I see, is that the 150 kg weight does work on the gas? I might be wrong. But if so it does 1470 J, so I got Work. Work is [itex]\Delta W= P \Delta V[/itex]. I can see that pressure goes up, and volume goes down. But I have no clue as in how to find either of those.

That "A" is it the surface of the piston??If so,u can compute the pressure the piston is exeritng on the gas...Temperature remains constant,so you'd have to apply
[tex]P_{1}V_{1}=P_{2}V_{2}[/tex]

Daniel.
 
Hmm, I didnt think of that. I think I can take it from here. Thank you very much. :smile:
 

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