Psilocybes. What causes the hallucinations?

  • Thread starter Thread starter cronxeh
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the biochemical mechanisms behind the hallucinations caused by psilocybin and related compounds. Participants explore various aspects, including the role of neurotransmitters, the brain areas involved, and comparisons to conditions like synesthesia and sleep deprivation effects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the biochemical reasons for hallucinations, specifically the role of psilocybin as a post-synaptic 5-HT2A receptor agonist and its potential connection to geometric patterns and synesthesia.
  • Another participant suggests that hallucinogenic drugs mimic neurotransmitters, noting structural similarities between serotonin and psilocybin, and proposes that this similarity may explain the experience of hallucinations.
  • A participant raises the question of why serotonin itself does not cause hallucinations, suggesting that psilocybin disrupts normal neural functions, leading to hallucinations.
  • One participant speculates that the concentration of psilocybin in the brain may be significantly higher than that of serotonin, which could contribute to hallucinations.
  • Another participant introduces the idea that sleep deprivation may also lead to hallucinations, questioning whether this is related to serotonin levels.
  • There is a discussion about the differences in chemical reactions between psilocybin and serotonin, which may affect their interaction with receptor sites and contribute to hallucinations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various hypotheses regarding the mechanisms of hallucinations, but no consensus is reached on the specific biochemical processes or the role of different neurotransmitters. Multiple competing views remain regarding the relationship between neurotransmitter levels and hallucinations.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of the exact brain areas involved and the complexity of neurotransmitter interactions. Some points raised depend on further research and clarification of definitions.

cronxeh
Gold Member
Messages
1,006
Reaction score
11
Psilocybin, Psilocin, etc

What are the reasons for psychodelic effects on human body and brain from biochemical perspective. What causes the hallucinations? I understand its a "post-synaptic 5-HT2A receptor agonist", but has anyone ever studied the significance of geometric patterns and are those patterns related to what people with synesthesia experience or autistic savants?

Does the chemical actually trigger the neurochemical bridge between different perception channels? Why do people hallucinate and see things that arent there? Has there been any study on actual areas of the brain being affected, triggered, supressed, or bridged by psychodelic substances?

Please refrain from derailing this thread into some drug stoner hippy talk. Do not promote the use or preparation of psilocybin-containing mushrooms or other chemical compounds. I don't want this thread to become another https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=30204&page=1&pp=15
 
Biology news on Phys.org
Check this thread to get you started, I'll have to do some digging for the more specific info.
 
cronxeh said:
Why do people hallucinate and see things that arent there?

Hallucinogenic drugs mimic neurotransmitters. Are you familiar with the chemical structure of these drugs and neurotransmitters? They're similar. Surely if perception is interpreted in terms of neural impulses and since the impulses are converted to chemical messengers at the synapse, then it's clear to me anyway how one would experience fake sensations by the presence of these drugs in the synaptic gap. Just an example: serotonin looks to me anyway, real similar in structure to psilocybin.
 
cronxeh said:
http://www.rufeger.de/psychoaktiv/info/psilocin.html

They do look alike. But we don't hallucinate on serotonin - why?

Does this effect take place in hypothalamus, since most of the senses and perception functions are there

That's an interesting question. Two points:

Serotonin is "regulated" by normal neural functions: A sensory response causes an orderly sequence of neural events. Any serotonin secreted is a normal event we sense as real experience. The presence of psilocybin disrupts this normal function: A neural event is being caused but no sensory response is doing it. I suspect if serotonin were secreted haphazardly, it too would cause symptoms similar to hallucinations.

People who ingest psilocybin and other hallucinogens, I suspect do so in amounts which end up in the brain in concentrations many times more than any similar neurotransmitter. Likewise, I suspect if one were to ingest large amounts of serotonin, it too would cause hallucinations. I think anyway.

I'm not sure where the neurons which use serotonin are located. We could google it.
 
Last edited:
Also, people are known to hallucinate when they don't sleep for about a week - is this due to low levels of serotonin? If so, opposite is true - you hallucinate not due to overflow of neurotransmitters, but due to lack of it as well
 
cronxeh said:
Also, people are known to hallucinate when they don't sleep for about a week - is this due to low levels of serotonin? If so, opposite is true - you hallucinate not due to overflow of neurotransmitters, but due to lack of it as well

I don't know if sleep deprivation has anything to do with serotonin. Worth looking into though. Last I read, we know of about 50 neurotransmitters, maybe more by now.

Also wanted to point out that since psilocybin is only "similar" to serotonin, the chemistry won't be exactly the same: Psilocybin likely will have different reaction dynamics with serotonin's receptor site (if in fact it affects such). This difference will also contribute to aberrant neural events and may be a significant factor in its hallucinogenic effect.
 

Similar threads

What Causes Human Smoking? Could It Be Mental Illness?
  • · Replies 41 ·
2
Replies
41
Views
9K