Throwing relativity out the window

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothetical implications of faster-than-light (FTL) travel within a Newtonian framework, intentionally setting aside the principles of relativity. Participants explore the conceptual consequences of such a scenario, including the visibility of objects moving at FTL speeds and the nature of information transfer in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose a thought experiment where a Newtonian spacetime is accepted for argument's sake, questioning the effects of FTL travel on visibility and information transfer.
  • One participant suggests that if an ether is included in the model, phenomena analogous to sound waves, such as Cerenkov radiation, could occur even in a vacuum.
  • Another participant critiques the initial premise, arguing that it is unreasonable to discard established scientific theories like relativity for the sake of discussion, and compares it to absurd hypothetical scenarios like a flat Earth.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes the need to clarify the implications of FTL travel, suggesting a rephrasing of the question to focus on consequences in a Newtonian universe without relativity's constraints.
  • One participant questions the nature of information in the context of FTL travel, asking whether it constitutes another form of light and how observers would perceive events occurring after they have passed an FTL traveler.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the validity of discussing a Newtonian spacetime and the implications of FTL travel. Some challenge the premise while others engage with it, leading to a contested discussion without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in assumptions about the nature of spacetime and the implications of FTL travel, particularly in relation to established theories of relativity. There are unresolved questions regarding the definitions and interpretations of concepts like information and visibility in this hypothetical scenario.

eNathan
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Ok, without criticism can we all just accept for argument sake a Newtonian spacetime? That is - without relativity.

Ok, I'm going to try to describe something that I thought of a long time ago (considering time travel when I knew not of relativity).

If information travels through light, what things would happen if we travel faster than light? Will you be not seen by others while you are passing them? And they only see you after you have passed them?
 
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If you accept additionally an ether, all would be the way it is with sound. You will have cerenkov light even in vacuum.
 
eNathan said:
without criticism can we all just accept for argument sake a Newtonian spacetime? That is - without relativity.
In the Relativity forum?!?
sorry - got to move this
 
eNathan said:
Ok, without criticism can we all just accept for argument sake a Newtonian spacetime? That is - without relativity.

Ok, I'm going to try to describe something that I thought of a long time ago (considering time travel when I knew not of relativity).

If information travels through light, what things would happen if we travel faster than light? Will you be not seen by others while you are passing them? And they only see you after you have passed them?

AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA *breath* AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm sorry, I just can't believe the idea of dropping a scientific theory "for the sake of argument" :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:

And then you talk about going faster than light, which can't be done according to relativity! :smile: :smile: :smile:

Please. PLEASE PLEASE learn about relativity before you say such stupid things. What you just said might as well be
Ok, without criticism can we all just accept for argument sake a flat earth? That is - without curvature

Ok, I'm going to try to describe something that I thought of a long time ago (considering gravity when I knew not of curvature).

If gravity forces us down, what would happen if we were on the bottom of the earth? Will you fall off the planet?
 
eNathan said:
Ok, without criticism can we all just accept for argument sake a Newtonian spacetime? That is - without relativity.

Ok, I'm going to try to describe something that I thought of a long time ago (considering time travel when I knew not of relativity).

If information travels through light, what things would happen if we travel faster than light? Will you be not seen by others while you are passing them?
And they only see you after you have passed them?


For the sake of argument let's analyze your knowledge of descriptive speech?

If information travels through light
Is this information another form of LIGHT?..is it the Encyclopedia Galactica?

what things would happen if we travel faster than light?
You would be traveling faster than the transportation medium (Light) that supports you, according to your first argument!

Will you be not seen by others while you are passing them?
My argument is that you have the first four words the wrong way around, thus:You Will not be seen by others while you are passing them?


And they only see you after you have passed them

What information are they using to 'see' an after-event?..I mean you have said they have passed you by, which is a non-interacting scenario? :-p

Dont worry though, Relativity invokes the reader to extend their imagination to extro-ordinary corners(see I to can mis-use words!) of their minds.

Enjoy to learn, that is all you can do :smile:
 
No, Alkatran, he said "WITHOUT criticism".

How about a rephrase...?
"What are the consequences of FTL travel in a purely Newtonian universe?" (e.g., light still travels at 186,000 miles per second but there's no ultimate speed limit...or time dilation...or length contraction...etc.)
 

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