What is the formula for finding the area of a non-symmetric oval shape?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of whether there is a formula for calculating the area of non-symmetric oval shapes, with participants exploring various interpretations of "oval" and the mathematical approaches to finding such areas.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the existence of a formula for the area of an oval shape, expressing a desire to know if it has been discovered.
  • One participant questions the term "oval" and suggests that the term may need clarification, possibly referring to specific shapes like ellipses or egg shapes.
  • Another participant proposes using integration of the formula for an ellipse, emphasizing careful boundary selection and the need to account for negative portions of the graph.
  • A participant asserts that the area of an ellipse is well-known and can be derived from the area of a circle, providing the formula A_{ellipse} = \pi ab, where a and b are the lengths of the axes.
  • Some participants suggest that for classical "egg" shapes, a well-defined formula for the bounding curves is necessary, and integration would be required to find the area.
  • One participant shares a personal anecdote about a brass object shaped as a solid of revolution, discussing the mathematical equation that describes its cross-section and the implications for stability and design.
  • There is mention of a generalization of symmetric ovals, where different values of n in the equation can produce various shapes, including oblong forms and diamonds.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the definition of "oval" or the existence of a universally applicable formula for non-symmetric shapes, indicating multiple competing views and unresolved questions regarding the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the specific definitions and mathematical treatments of different oval shapes, highlighting the need for clear bounding curves and integration methods for certain cases.

abia ubong
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i want to know if there is a formula for the area of an oval shape because i have been working on it and want to know if it has been discovered
 
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What's the mathematically correct term for "oval"...?

Daniel.
 
abia ubong said:
i want to know if there is a formula for the area of an oval shape because i have been working on it and want to know if it has been discovered
hint: integrate the formula for an ellipse, using the boundaries carefully, and making sure that you sum any "negative" portions of the graph separately.

or you could just look it up in a book, i suppose...but that would be no fun.
 
abia ubong said:
i want to know if there is a formula for the area of an oval shape because i have been working on it and want to know if it has been discovered

If you mean an ellipse, then, yes, I would think the formula has been known for centuries. It's actually trivial to derive it yourself.

The ellipse is basically a stretched version of the circle. It's said to have a shorter minor axis, [itex]a[/itex] and a longer major axis, [itex]b[/itex]. These axes are the analogues of the (uniform) radius of a circle. Observe that if you took a circle of radius [itex]a[/itex] and stretched it by a factor of [itex]\frac{b}{a}[/itex] in one direction, you'd have the exact shape of the ellipse.

So we'll use that fact. Since the ellipse is stretched in only one dimension with respect to the circle, the ratio of the areas of the ellipse to the circle is going to be simply [itex]\frac{b}{a}[/itex]. We know that area of the circle is [itex]\pi a^2[/itex]. (I'm not going to derive this here, I'm assuming you've seen proofs of that before).

So,

[tex]A_{ellipse} = A_{circle}(\frac{b}{a}) = \pi a^2 (\frac{b}{a}) = \pi ab[/tex]

So the area of the ellipse is simply [itex]\pi ab[/itex], Pi times the minor axis times the major axis.
 
But, if by oval, you mean the classical "egg" shape, the cross section of which has only one axis of symmetry, then you need to have a well defined formula (Cartesian or polar) for the bounding curves, then use integration to find the area bounded by the curves.
 
Curious3141 said:
But, if by oval, you mean the classical "egg" shape, the cross section of which has only one axis of symmetry, then you need to have a well defined formula (Cartesian or polar) for the bounding curves, then use integration to find the area bounded by the curves.

Many years ago my sister gave me a Christmas present that was a lump of brass in the shape of a solid of revolution with a central cross section given by the equation

[tex]\left[\frac{|x|}{a}\right]^n + \left[\frac{|y|}{b}\right]^n = 1[/tex]

I don't recall the value for n that was used, but it was chosen to make the thing have stable equilibrium while standing on end, but just barely. On a flat surface it would roll nicely end to end, bobbing up and down, and had some nice characteristics for spinning more or less about the long axis. I seem to recall the shape had been used by some architects to design a sports arena.

It is an interesting generalization of a symmetric oval, of which the ellipse is a special case. In general, n need not be an integer (I think it was not for my little novelty; it was probably about 2.5). With n = 1, it is a diamond. With n < 1 it has a concave cross section. With n > 1 you can generate oblong shapes comparable to oblong balls like those used in football and rugby. In fact, you can have different exponents on the two terms. With different exponents you can fine tune the "pointiness" of the ends
 

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