Why is Mass-Energy Concentrated in Atoms, Solar Systems & Galaxies?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the reasons for the presence of empty space in atoms, solar systems, and galaxies, as well as the concentration of mass-energy across these different scales. Participants explore theoretical and conceptual aspects related to atomic structure, gravitational forces, and the implications of physical models.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why there is significant empty space within atoms, solar systems, and between galaxies, suggesting that forces play a role in this phenomenon.
  • One participant discusses the Bohr model of the hydrogen atom, proposing that the size of electron orbitals is related to the requirement for the electron's wave function to have an integer number of cycles, drawing an analogy to resonant frequencies in a circular pipe.
  • A participant mentions the Bohr radius as a defining measure of atomic size but expresses uncertainty about the relative sizes of subatomic particles compared to the Bohr radius, suggesting the anthropic principle as a possible explanation.
  • Another participant introduces gravity as a significant factor for scales larger than solar systems, implying its role in mass-energy concentration.
  • A claim is made regarding the mass of all electrons, protons, and neutrons in a cubic centimeter, suggesting an extremely high weight, though the context of this claim is not fully explored.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the reasons for empty space and mass-energy concentration, indicating that multiple competing views remain without a consensus on the explanations provided.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about physical models, such as the accuracy of the Bohr model versus quantum mechanical models, and the implications of gravitational forces at different scales. There are unresolved questions regarding the size relationships between atomic and subatomic structures.

Ratzinger
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Why is there so much empty space in atoms, in solar systems or between galaxies?
Why is mass-energy always so concentrated on all these different scales?
 
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Why is there so much empty space in atoms, in solar systems or between galaxies?
Forces.

Why is mass-energy always so concentrated on all these different scales?
I don't understand.
 
Ratzinger said:
Why is there so much empty space in atoms, in solar systems or between galaxies?
Why is mass-energy always so concentrated on all these different scales?

regarding atoms, particularly the Bohr model (which is not as accurate as the quantum mechanical model of the H atom), is that electron orbitals have to be as large as they are for the electron's (deBroglie) wave function to have an integer number of cycles going around the orbit.

that is just like the resonant frequencies of a circular pipe. only frequencies where, for each time a sound wave or electron's wave goes around the circuit, the wave function is at the same phase (so as not to cancel the wave from other cycles before or after) of the waves for the other trips around the circuit, only waves of those frequencies will survive the out-of-phase "destructive interference". or stated more simply, only waves with wavelengths that are the circumference divided by an integer number, only those waves will have constructive interference. those waves will team up.

the smallest such circumference in the H atom is [itex]2 \pi[/itex] times what is called the Bohr radius [itex]a_0 = \frac{m_P}{m_e \alpha}l_P[/itex] and it's about half an angstrom. it defines the ballpark of how big atoms are.

that doesn't explain why the subatomic particles, the neutrons and protons and electrons etc., are so much smaller than the Bohr radius. that i do not know. we could appeal to the anthropic principle, i s'pose.

r b-j
 
Last edited:
Gravity on both counts for scales larger than solar systems.

Claude.
 
I read in some book that if one was to put all the electrons, protons and neutrons together a 1 cm^3 would weight about 10 milion tons.
 

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