Simplifying Equations for Lorentz Boosts with Small Beta

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the simplification of equations related to Lorentz boosts, particularly focusing on the transformation of metrics and the implications of small beta approximations. Participants explore the mathematical relationships between different equations and the assumptions underlying these transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant combines equations related to Lorentz boosts and seeks clarification on how to simplify the resulting expression to match a specific equation from a reference text.
  • Another participant suggests that the transformation of the metric should also include the transformation of eta, leading to a multiplication that retains certain terms while dropping higher-order small terms.
  • A specific example of a metric transformation under a Lorentz boost is presented, illustrating how the metric changes with substitutions for small beta.
  • Concerns are raised about the form of the transformation \Lambda and its applicability for larger values of beta, questioning whether the assumptions hold in those cases.
  • Participants discuss the need for clarity on the conditions under which the transformations are valid, particularly emphasizing the smallness of beta and the implications for the terms involved.
  • One participant acknowledges a missing condition regarding the smallness of derivatives of the transformation, which is crucial for the assumptions made in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the transformations for larger beta values, with some suggesting that the discussion is limited to small beta approximations. There is no consensus on the implications of these transformations for larger beta or the exact nature of the assumptions involved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the assumption that the mapping from x to x' is close to unity, which may not hold for larger beta values. The discussion also highlights the dependence on specific definitions and conditions that are not universally agreed upon.

Jimmy Snyder
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I got so much excellent help from my last question that I have decided to take advantage as much as I can. Here is another question.

On page 202, I combine equations 8.18 and 8.19 and change bars for primes (to match eqn. 8.22)

[tex]g_{\alpha' \beta'} = \eta_{\alpha' \beta'} + \Lambda^{\mu}_{\alpha'}\Lambda^{\nu}_{\beta'}h_{\mu \nu}[/tex]

where [itex]\Lambda[/itex] is a boost. Here is eqn 8.21 with the non-linear terms deleted

[tex]\Lambda^{\alpha}_{\beta'} = \delta^{\alpha}_{\beta} - \xi^{\alpha}_{,\beta}[/tex]

Combining these I get:

[tex]g_{\alpha' \beta'} = \eta_{\alpha' \beta'} + (\delta^{\mu}_{\alpha} - \xi^{\mu}_{,\alpha})(\delta^{\nu}_{\beta} - \xi^{\nu}_{,\beta})h_{\mu \nu}[/tex]

using [itex]\eta_{\alpha' \beta'} = \eta_{\alpha \beta}[/itex], expanding the factors, and dropping the term quadratic in [itex]\xi[/itex] I get:

[tex]g_{\alpha' \beta'} = \eta_{\alpha \beta} + \delta^{\mu}_{\alpha}\delta^{\nu}_{\beta}h_{\mu \nu} - \xi^{\mu}_{,\alpha}\delta^{\nu}_{\beta}h_{\mu \nu} - \delta^{\mu}_{\alpha}\xi^{\nu}_{,\beta}h_{\mu \nu}[/tex]

[tex]g_{\alpha' \beta'} = \eta_{\alpha \beta} + h_{\alpha \beta} - \xi^{\mu}_{,\alpha}h_{\mu \beta} - \xi^{\nu}_{,\beta}h_{\alpha \nu}[/tex]

Now, finally, comes my question:

How can I use eqn 8.23 to simplify this to 8.22? It looks like Schutz is using h as if it were [itex]\eta[/itex]

Here is 8.23

[tex]\xi_{\alpha} = \eta_{\alpha \beta}\xi^{\beta}[/tex]

Here is 8.22

[tex]g_{\alpha' \beta'} = \eta_{\alpha \beta} + h_{\alpha \beta} - \xi_{\alpha,\beta} - \xi_{\beta,\alpha}[/tex]
 
Last edited:
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I think you need to transform [itex]\eta[/itex] too, i.e.,

[tex]g_{\alpha' \beta'} = (\delta^{\mu}_{\alpha} - \xi^{\mu}_{,\alpha})(\delta^{\nu}_{\beta} - \xi^{\nu}_{,\beta})(\eta_{\mu \nu} + h_{\mu \nu})[/tex]

After multiplying everything out and dropping terms that are "second order small", I get (8.22).

Because of (8.13),what I call "second order small" includes terms like

[tex] \xi^{\nu}_{,\beta}h_{\mu \nu}.<br /> [/itex]<br /> <br /> Regards,<br /> George[/tex]
 
A specific example I recently worked might be of some interest
Starting with the metric

[tex] \left[ \begin {array}{cccc} 1-2\,{\it \Phi0} \left( {\it x1},{\it y1},{\it z1} \right) &0&0&0\\\noalign{\medskip}0&-1-2\,{\it \Phi0} \left( {<br /> \it x1},{\it y1},{\it z1} \right) &0&0\\\noalign{\medskip}0&0&-1-2\,{<br /> \it \Phi0} \left( {\it x1},{\it y1},{\it z1} \right) &0<br /> \\\noalign{\medskip}0&0&0&-1-2\,{\it \Phi0} \left( {\it x1},{\it y1},{<br /> \it z1} \right) \end {array} \right] [/tex]

when boosted in the 'x' direction by the substitutions for a Lorentz boost
x = (x1+beta*t1)/sqrt(1-beta^2), t=(t1+beta*x1)/sqrt(1-beta^2)

gives

[tex] \left[ \begin {array}{cccc} 1+{\frac { \left( 2+2\,{\beta}^{2} \right) {\it \Phi0} \left( {\it x1},{\it y1},{\it z1} \right) }{-1+{<br /> \beta}^{2}}}&-4\,{\frac {\beta\,{\it \Phi0} \left( {\it x1},{\it y1},{<br /> \it z1} \right) }{-1+{\beta}^{2}}}&0&0\\\noalign{\medskip}-4\,{\frac {<br /> \beta\,{\it \Phi0} \left( {\it x1},{\it y1},{\it z1} \right) }{-1+{<br /> \beta}^{2}}}&{-1+\frac { \left( 2+2\,{\beta}^{2} \right) {\it '\Phi0}<br /> \left( {\it x1},{\it y1},{\it z1} \right) }{-1+{\beta}^{2}}}}&0&0\\\noalign{\medskip}0&0&-1-2\,{\it <br /> \Phi0} \left( {\it x1},{\it y1},{\it z1} \right) &0\\\noalign{\medskip}0<br /> &0&0&-1-2\,{\it \Phi0} \left( {\it x1},{\it y1},{\it z1} \right) <br /> \end {array} \right][/tex]

of course, for a general transformation [itex]\Lambda[/itex], [itex]\eta_{uv}[/itex] might not turn out to be the same after the transform as it did for this example, you have to assume that the transform preserves the lengths of space-time intervals to make this happen.

ps a minor Latex point - note that Lambda^a{}_b gives [tex]\Lambda^a{}_b[/tex], properly aligned, as opposed to Lambda^a_b which gives [tex]\Lambda^a_b[/tex]
 
jimmysnyder said:
Here is eqn 8.21 with the non-linear terms deleted

[tex]\Lambda^{\alpha}_{\beta'} = \delta^{\alpha}_{\beta} - \xi^{\alpha}_{,\beta}[/tex]

What sort of transformation is [itex]\Lambda[/itex] supposed to be? It looks like my boost example, for instance, does not have [itex]\Lambda[/itex] in this form for large beta, because the diagonal coefficients are 1/sqrt(1-beta^2), not unity.
 
pervect said:
What sort of transformation is [itex]\Lambda[/itex] supposed to be?
A boost. I will edit my original post to indicate this.
 
George Jones said:
I think you need to transform [itex]\eta[/itex] too
Thanks. As long as you guys are so willing to help, I intend to continue to take advantage. I have no access to a teacher or tutor.
 
jimmysnyder said:
Thanks. As long as you guys are so willing to help, I intend to continue to take advantage. I have no access to a teacher or tutor.

OK, that's exactly what I did in my specific example. But note that for large values of beta, the term that maps x into x' is

x' = x/sqrt(1-beta^2)

which has a magnitude of 1/sqrt(1-beta^2), which can be very large, approaching infinity as beta->1.

While your relation 8.21 requires


[tex]\Lambda^{\alpha}{}_{\beta'} = \delta^{\alpha}{}_{\beta} - \xi^{\alpha}{}_{,\beta}[/tex]

which means that you are assuming that the mapping from x to x' is unity, or close to it.

Perhaps this is a Lorentz boost restricted to small beta, and that only the linear terms in beta are being kept (because beta is assumed to be <<1)?
 
pervect said:
Perhaps this is a Lorentz boost restricted to small beta, and that only the linear terms in beta are being kept (because beta is assumed to be <<1)?
This is my fault. I left out that information (I assumed the reader had a copy of Schutz even though I knew that you don't). There is an extra condition:

[tex]|\xi^{\alpha}{}_{,\beta}| \ll 1[/tex]

That is why George called the product of this term with h, second order small.
 

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