Dark matter affecting galaxy rotation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of dark matter on galaxy rotation, exploring the complexities of galactic dynamics compared to solar system mechanics. Participants seek to understand the gravitational interactions within galaxies and the implications of dark matter in explaining observed rotation rates.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how dark matter influences galaxy rotation, noting that it does not follow the same principles as solar system rotation.
  • Another participant explains that stars in galaxies rotate at speeds that would cause them to escape if only ordinary matter were present, suggesting that additional mass is required to maintain their orbits.
  • A further contribution details that the rotation speed of stars depends on the total mass within their orbit, and discrepancies between observed mass from light and the mass required for stable rotation indicate the presence of dark matter.
  • A participant questions whether anomalous galactic rotation is the sole evidence for dark matter, proposing a hypothetical scenario where gravity could degrade over distance, which might challenge the dark matter hypothesis.
  • A later reply lists additional evidence for dark matter beyond galactic rotation, including gravitational lensing and the virial theorem applied to cluster velocities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether anomalous rotation is the only evidence for dark matter, and there are competing views regarding the implications of alternative gravitational theories.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions include assumptions about the nature of gravity and the interpretation of mass measurements, which may not be universally accepted or resolved.

billy_boy_999
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i don't understand how dark matter acts upon the rotation of a galaxy. galaxy rotation doesn't work the same way that solar system rotation does in that it's not a simple gradient of further planets rotate slower, right? nor is it further planets rotate faster, like a vinyl record...i take it our galaxy's rotation is a tad more complex, can anyone explain more lucidly the problems we have run into with trying to figure out the gravitational workings of our galaxy and how dark matter enters into the equation?
 
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Qualitatively, the essential point is that stars are revolving around galactic centers at a speed which would lead to them leaving the galaxy if the only matter there was ordinary matter (visible or otherwise). That is, more mass is needed to hold the galaxy together against centrifugal force.
 
With some important caveats, the rate at which a star rotates about the centre of the galaxy it's in depends only on the total mass 'interior' (between the star and the centre of the galaxy) to the star. Therefore, if you can measure the speed with which stars are moving around the centre of a galaxy, as a function of distance from the centre, you can determine the mass of the galaxy, as a function of that same distance.

That's what 'galaxy rotation rates' is shorthand for; you put the slit of your spectroscope along the observed plane of the galaxy (making sure you centre it on the galaxy nucleus), then the deviation of the spectal lines (e.g. HII, [OII], Ca II) from the centre will measure this rotation function. (there are other ways to get it too).

We think we know how to estimate the total amount of 'normal' mass from the observed total 'light' (I'm simplifying a lot). When you plug these numbers in, you find an astonishing thing - there seems to be more mass in a galaxy (as you go further out from the nucleus) than you can account for from the 'light' ... and it gets worse the further out you go.

Oh, and it's not just 'cause we only looked at a dozen or three galaxies; it seems to be just about every galaxy (some notable exceptions).
 
informative, thanks a lot guys...can i clarify something? is anomalous galactic rotation the ONLY evidence we have of the existence of dark matter? that is, if tomorrow we found out that galactic rotation is dependent on some kind of gravity degredation, like maybe gravitons disperse over large distances or something farfetched, would that completely dissolve the dark matter question?
 
Originally posted by billy_boy_999
informative, thanks a lot guys...can i clarify something? is anomalous galactic rotation the ONLY evidence we have of the existence of dark matter? that is, if tomorrow we found out that galactic rotation is dependent on some kind of gravity degredation, like maybe gravitons disperse over large distances or something farfetched, would that completely dissolve the dark matter question?
Please read the long sticky thread in GA&C, it's all about exactly this question.

In a nutshell:
- gravitation lensing
- virial theorem applied to cluster velocities
- IGM equilibrium pressure and temperature
- LSS theories
- ...
 

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