News How do forensic archaeologists determine the origins of different races?

[dsr39]

I can't find this information online. I was wondering if anyone could tell me about how many black people reside in China.

There are 1.3 billion people in China

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I can't find this information online. I was wondering if anyone could tell me about how many black people reside in China.

There are 1.3 billion people in China

I understand that there are actually quite a few though probably not nearly as many as in some other countries. Black people are also very much looked down upon in China from what I gather. A couple of chinese ladies I talk to online occasionally expressed great reservations about Obama being the president of the US. They may not be quite the normal chinese person in perspective but I magine that the intense nationalism in their country contributes heavily to descrimination based on race.

Edit: I've been looking and can't find numbers either. Its very possible that they are not allowed citizenship and so are not counted in the census.

 

[dsr39]

I am hoping for a number or some sort of decent estimated range

 

[mgb_phys]

I am hoping for a number or some sort of decent estimated range

You won't get one.
Assuming you aren't counting any of the Chinese aborigine goups as 'black' but mean Africans then they aren't on the Chinese governments census. The very few black Africans in China are likely to be employees of foreign (especially US) companies or short term visitors who won't be counted and whose ethnicity isn't tracked.

 

[Brilliant!]

I don't mean to discourage, but it's not very likely that the Chinese government would keep track of such information. Two reasons: 1) They are such a small part of the population, and 2) the Chinese are very racist against blacks, so they aren't likely to show up on census reports.

 

[dsr39]

OK then let's see who can make the most clever use of resources we do have. How far can you narrow your estimate.

I will start

# of Blacks (African) in China < 1.3 billion

who can improve this

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

http://www.prb.org/Source/59.2ChinasPopNewTrends.pdf
Starting at page 26 this paper discusses ethnic minorities in China and reference 56 officially recognized minorities though I am uncertain whether this applies only to various chinese cultures or outside cultures aswell. It also mentions the "floating population" who rove about without official sanction taking jobs where they can. From what I have heard I think that the majority of blacks in China probably fit into this category and the article states that there is no accurate measurement of this segment of the population.

Try searching chinese migrant population.

 

[dsr39]

Okay that document says there are about 1.1 billion Han. I am assuming none of them are black

So I have narrowed it down to:

< .2 billion black people in China

So far I am winning

 

[phreak]

They may not be quite the normal chinese person in perspective but I magine that the intense nationalism in their country contributes heavily to descrimination based on race.

Oh trust me, they are normal. Chinese people hate black people. They hate white people, too. Actually, they hate everyone who isn't Chinese. (I'm not kidding either, knowing the number of Chinese girlfriends I've had and knowing their families. Whenever they see another Asian do something bad, they just say "He's probably Korean!")

 

[rootX]

http://thechinaexpat.com/racism-in-china/

There's racism against blacks.. so there are some blacks
(not a good source .. )

As for estimation ..

The People's Republic of China (PRC) officially recognizes 56 distinct ethnic groups, the largest of which are Han, who constitute about 91.9% of the total population. Ethnic minorities constitute 8.1% or 107.1 million of China's population. Large ethnic minorities include the Zhuang (16 million or 1.30%), Manchu (10 million or 0.86%), Uyghur (9 million or 0.79%), Hui (9 million or 0.79%), Miao (8 million or 0.72%), Yi (7 million or 0.65%), Tujia (5.75 million or 0.62%), Mongols (5 million or 0.47%), Tibetan (5 million or 0.44%), Buyi (3 million or 0.26%), and Korean (2 million or 0.15%).

Add up these percentages, and then divide whatever left with ~5 to 50

 

[rootX]

Actually, they hate everyone who isn't Chinese.

 

[Astronuc]

Oh trust me, they are normal. Chinese people hate black people. They hate white people, too. Actually, they hate everyone who isn't Chinese.

This is some gross generalization, and certainly contradicts my experience with people of Chinese origin from PRC, Taiwan and immigrants to the US, and those born in the US. There is a spectrum of ethnocentrism in all ethnic groups. One size does not fit all.

 

[Monique]

The CIA world factbook is a good resource:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html#People"

Han Chinese 91.5%, Zhuang, Manchu, Hui, Miao, Uyghur, Tujia, Yi, Mongol, Tibetan, Buyi, Dong, Yao, Korean, and other nationalities 8.5% (2000 census)

 

[Zdenka]

Ermm... Actually Chinese ARE black people

http://www.trinicenter.com/FirstChinese.htm

Well even Chinese hate their own, considering that have never been a united race. Ever heard of the term 'The Sick Man of Asia?' I see more Chinese women getting paired off with white folks (overseas, that is) than I do with Chinese male. Women knows best! :)

 

[hbf1184]

Black people in China? Well, I believe there's no ethnic classification for indigenious Black Chinese in China from the population data I've seen. They only report Chinese ethnic groups for their population census, not racial groups. Africans or other Black people from other countries (i.e. university students) are the only group in China regarded as 'Black'.

There's the Famau clan (Siyu village) on Pate Island off the East African coast who are considered the last surviving descendants of Chinese sailors (Admiral Zheng He's 15th century treasure ship voyages) and African women, whom Chinese tourist and academics visit frequently. I believe there's a archeological study, started in 2006 of the island by Beijing University.

But according to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, a genetic study (University of Texas, 1998) headed by population geneticist Dr. Li Jin , "Genetic researchers say they have found fresh evidence that Chinese people are descended from Africans... Academics from the University of Texas and their colleagues in China studied 28 population groups in China and concluded that most - if not all - had their genetic origins in Africa..."

Follow-up genetic research since the 1998 study has yielded the same conclusions. It's amazing how some information never seems to get disseminated well enough. French anthropologist H. Imbert stated this in 1928 (Les Negritos de la Chine): "The Negroid races peopled at some time all the South of India, Indo-China and China. The South of Indo-China actually has now pure Negritos as the Semangs and mixed as the Malays and the Sakais..."

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Actually, they hate everyone who isn't Chinese. Whenever they see another Asian do something bad, they just say "He's probably Korean!"

I thought it was just me. I'm going to tell my wife I'm Korean just to see if it helps.

 

[gmax137]

"they hate everyone who isn't chinese" When I (lily white american) was in China everyone was very nice to me. A couple of them confided that they liked americans, and that that feeling goes back to their war with the japanese. The flying tigers are still heroes there. This is the mainland, Taiwan may be different.

 

[Unknown_9999]

actually, their idol is michael jackson.

 

[jobyts]

actually, their idol is michael jackson.

But not many Asians (living in Asia) know he's actually black.

 

[Bobbywhy]

I spent two years in Taiwan working with the Republic of China Navy (ROCN). Nearly every single person I know in Taiwan, both in the Navy and outside it, thinks Black folks are cousins of monkeys...a subhuman species. They maintain the Chinese race is superior to all the others, as well.

 

[tmyer2107]

I recently came across an article related to racism in China and thought of this thread. Here is a link to it. http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/12/21/china.race/index.html"

 

[leroyjenkens]

I recently came across an article related to racism in China and thought of this thread. Here is a link to it. http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/12/21/china.race/index.html"

That seems so strange. I've never seen an Asian before who didn't look oriental. I was sure they existed, but I've just never seen a black or white person who had an Asian-type name and spoke only an Asian language.

They maintain the Chinese race is superior to all the others, as well.

They don't realize Chinese is a nationality and not a race? Racism never makes sense anyway.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

That seems so strange. I've never seen an Asian before who didn't look oriental. I was sure they existed, but I've just never seen a black or white person who had an Asian-type name and spoke only an Asian language.

They don't realize Chinese is a nationality and not a race? Racism never makes sense anyway.

There are multiple ethnic groups in china, as noted by the article, but the vast majority are Han and they can often be racist even against their fellow countrymen.

I have mostly seen white-asian mixes. There are differences though the level of difference depends. A friend of mine in High School was half japanese and half italian. He looked pretty much like a white kid except for small differences in skin tone, eyes, and hair. There are very few mixed race people who actually look like some exotic mixture, they usually just look more like one or the other with some small variations in features.

 

[aquitaine]

Annecdotally, many Chinese people I've talked to don't like Africans and the biggest reason has been their behavior. Also something to consider is a great many of the foreigners that have been busted on drug related charges were Africans (typically Nigerians).

 

[adrenaline]

when my taiwanese mother married my white father they told her she was going to give birth to "animals". When we lived in Malaysia ( I am a twin) some Thai folks offered my mother 50 grand per daughter to put us in the pedophile market ( eurasians were hot items), they told her we were not humans anyway. When we went to school in Japan, and were at the top of the class our teacher told my sister and I she was so proud that subhumans could do so well in class...

 

[Ivan Seeking]

when my taiwanese mother married my white father they told her she was going to give birth to "animals". When we lived in Malaysia ( I am a twin) some Thai folks offered my mother 50 grand per daughter to put us in the pedophile market ( eurasians were hot items), they told her we were not humans anyway. When we went to school in Japan, and were at the top of the class our teacher told my sister and I she was so proud that subhumans could do so well in class...

Incredible!

 

[enricfemi]

I spent two years in Taiwan working with the Republic of China Navy (ROCN). Nearly every single person I know in Taiwan, both in the Navy and outside it, thinks Black folks are cousins of monkeys...a subhuman species. They maintain the Chinese race is superior to all the others, as well.

the Republic of China Navy in Taiwan? how can that be?

 

[enricfemi]

when my taiwanese mother married my white father they told her she was going to give birth to "animals". When we lived in Malaysia ( I am a twin) some Thai folks offered my mother 50 grand per daughter to put us in the pedophile market ( eurasians were hot items), they told her we were not humans anyway. When we went to school in Japan, and were at the top of the class our teacher told my sister and I she was so proud that subhumans could do so well in class...

everyone is equal! there is no such thing called subhumans. rather than a group of people, racialist is such an opinion that always belongs to some idiots.

 

[Frame Dragger]

everyone is equal! there is no such thing called subhumans. rather than a group of people, racialist is such an opinion that always belongs to some idiots.

Yeah.. I can tell you really feel that way. Maybe what you mean is that everyone should be TREATED equally in terms of their personhood, but with recognition that:

1.) I'm white, male and therefore more likely to be a serial killer than a Black man of the same background. I'm not saying anyone is LIKELY to be that, but for reasons that are confusing, white guys seem to be the ones making hookers dissapear.

2.) I'm black, male, and therefore more likely to have hypertension. In fact, pretending I'm EXACTLY the same as #1, leads to me having a stroke.

We're equal in terms of potential, but that can be a very slippery slope from "treat everyone equally" to "treat everyone in the same way". I would posit: "No person, based on race or gender, can be said to be more or less human, and equal in terms of potential intellect, rights, etc... etc..."

As what I bolded points out... "idiots" apparently don't get the same equal treatment as people who differ due to race. If you want to hate racists (and it's hard not to), then this is the way to start. If want to change them... welll.. sometimes that works. If you want to UNDERSTAND them, and thereby empower yourself and others to defend themselves from all kinds of bigotry, THAT is a laudable goal. Platitudes such as "we're all equal"... "unless you're an idiot, or gay, or chrisitan, or jewish, or an atheist..." just don't work.
EDIT: removed html code

Guess what!? Some people are raised to be racist, and there is a period of time during which they have to be divested of those views. If you simply call them idiots and walk away, you have failed EVERYONE involved. Make an effort, and don't dismiss
anyone lightly if you really care about this.

That said, use your judgemnt, and know when to disengage. Still, if it's just supidity that makes people racist, there would be even more racists. Idiocy is the breeding ground for LOTS of foolish notions... that's why we need good teachers (I don't mean just in school).

 

[Makayla:]]

HELP PLEASE!
I am really confused and need some guidance i am a 14 year old black female and i really want to move to china and become a pediatrician but i am a little worried about how it my turn out. Because of the fact that everyone says that chinese people don't like black people i still try my hardest not to believe that. But now even my family is saying it as well. It sort of Feels like my dream is slowly being crushed just because of this one thing. but i still want to move to china and i am trying to visit on my 16th birthday and hoping to become a foreign exchange student later on in the future but i don't want to move some where that i won't be liked just because of how i look... so what can i do?

 

[Bobbywhy]

Makayla:] Welcome to Physics Forums! I am happy to see such a young person...just 14 years old...with such a dream of becoming a pediatrician and working in China. My suggestions are that you do visit China as soon as possible just as a tourist. Explore and absorb as much as possible during your short visit. Then I suggest you come back here and get to work on becoming a Pediatrician. That should take quite a few years, and during all that time you can research the possibility of living/working in China. Talk to people of Chinese descent here, study the Chinese culture, and learn to speak some Mandarin! As you get closer to graduation and your residency then you can decide about living and working in China. You have no hurry to make such a HUGE life decision now.

 

[Bobbywhy]

Oh, I forgot...if you can become a foreign exchange student and live/study in China that would the best possible way to decide if you want to come back later, after you become a doctor.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

HELP PLEASE!
I am really confused and need some guidance i am a 14 year old black female and i really want to move to china and become a pediatrician but i am a little worried about how it my turn out. Because of the fact that everyone says that chinese people don't like black people i still try my hardest not to believe that. But now even my family is saying it as well. It sort of Feels like my dream is slowly being crushed just because of this one thing. but i still want to move to china and i am trying to visit on my 16th birthday and hoping to become a foreign exchange student later on in the future but i don't want to move some where that i won't be liked just because of how i look... so what can i do?

From what I understand Chinese tend to be moderately polite to anyone's face even if they think poorly of you or speak poorly of you behind your back. I am not sure that there is any greater chance of being attacked based on your race there than there is here in the US. The police tend to be much more authoritarian and if they are racist they may well target you. I tried to do a quick search for some statistics and did not find any. China tends to withhold and "disincentivize" publishing information that reflects poorly on their country.

Its been a while since he was banned so I hope it will not be bad of me to post this...
http://chinathetimes.com/forum/index.php
A former PF member runs that site. He is an expat living in China. He moved there taking a job teaching people to speak english, at least that is what he used to do I am not sure any more. If you contact him he can probably give you some good insight about moving there and what to expect. There are some other expats in china that post there and some chinese citizens as well. It looks kinda dead though. I have not been there in a while.

edit: ok I took a look and it seems like no one is posting there any more. A quick look shows that Doctors Without Borders does work in China so they may have information to help you. If you are not so much interested in China as you are working with disadvantaged children in impoverished regions they may also be able to help you find alternatives.

 

[Makayla:]]

Bobbywhy and everyone thank you so much you helped me clear my head and start thinking about what i really need to be focused on. And thanks to you guys i am one step closer to making my dream a reality.

-Thank you:]

 

[Astronuc]

HELP PLEASE!
I am really confused and need some guidance i am a 14 year old black female and i really want to move to china and become a pediatrician but i am a little worried about how it my turn out. Because of the fact that everyone says that chinese people don't like black people i still try my hardest not to believe that. But now even my family is saying it as well. It sort of Feels like my dream is slowly being crushed just because of this one thing. but i still want to move to china and i am trying to visit on my 16th birthday and hoping to become a foreign exchange student later on in the future but i don't want to move some where that i won't be liked just because of how i look... so what can i do?

Learn the language, history and culture. Then you will do well.

 

[gregxy]

I'm white and most of the people in my group at work are Chinese. I have never
felt any resentment (I'm NOT the boss, he is Indian).

After my divorce I started dating and found that Asian
women liked me much more than white women. I think the reason is that I have
a PhD and education is very respected in China, where as the white women could
never get past my lack of hair. My girlfriend is Chinese and the white male / Asian
woman combination is quite common her in CA. I was also in Shanghai not long ago
and they treated me very well.

Asian culture has quite a bit of "hierarchy" to it. All people are not considered the
same. Asians respect their parents, boss, older siblings etc. From my experience
educated white people seem to be respected, but I also think they would look down on
Black people.

 

[CAC1001]

Black people in China? Well, I believe there's no ethnic classification for indigenious Black Chinese in China from the population data I've seen. They only report Chinese ethnic groups for their population census, not racial groups. Africans or other Black people from other countries (i.e. university students) are the only group in China regarded as 'Black'.

There's the Famau clan (Siyu village) on Pate Island off the East African coast who are considered the last surviving descendants of Chinese sailors (Admiral Zheng He's 15th century treasure ship voyages) and African women, whom Chinese tourist and academics visit frequently. I believe there's a archeological study, started in 2006 of the island by Beijing University.

But according to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, a genetic study (University of Texas, 1998) headed by population geneticist Dr. Li Jin , "Genetic researchers say they have found fresh evidence that Chinese people are descended from Africans... Academics from the University of Texas and their colleagues in China studied 28 population groups in China and concluded that most - if not all - had their genetic origins in Africa..."

Follow-up genetic research since the 1998 study has yielded the same conclusions. It's amazing how some information never seems to get disseminated well enough. French anthropologist H. Imbert stated this in 1928 (Les Negritos de la Chine): "The Negroid races peopled at some time all the South of India, Indo-China and China. The South of Indo-China actually has now pure Negritos as the Semangs and mixed as the Malays and the Sakais..."

I remember reading an article somewhere that all modern ethnicities are evolved off of one sub-group of black Africans that left Africa thousands of years ago and went on to spread around the world and form into all the different races/ethnicities we have today. They say you can take a black person from this sub-group in modern Africa, and a white person, an Asian, a Hispanic, a Middle Easterner, and so forth, and put them all side by side, that even though they all look different, genetically, they are all very similar.

Whereas then if you take this same black from that part of Africa where the people migrated from, and put him side by side with blacks from other parts of Africa, on the outside, they may all look alike, but genetically, there are some significant differences.

 

[PatrickPowers]

I remember reading an article somewhere that all modern ethnicities are evolved off of one sub-group of black Africans that left Africa thousands of years ago and went on to spread around the world and form into all the different races/ethnicities we have today. They say you can take a black person from this sub-group in modern Africa, and a white person, an Asian, a Hispanic, a Middle Easterner, and so forth, and put them all side by side, that even though they all look different, genetically, they are all very similar.

Whereas then if you take this same black from that part of Africa where the people migrated from, and put him side by side with blacks from other parts of Africa, on the outside, they may all look alike, but genetically, there are some significant differences.

Yes, the human race began in Africa. A group or several groups left Africa and evolved into the Oriental and Caucasian races. I believe this occurred about 50,000 years ago. Note that at that time there were already Negros along the coasts all the way to Australia.

 

[thorium1010]

Note that at that time there were already Negros along the coasts all the way to Australia.

Really ? you don't mind using that. I would instead use people with dark skin or african ancestry.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Really ? you don't mind using that. I would instead use people with dark skin or african ancestry.

"Negroid" is still sometimes used scientifically to refer to persons who have features and skin colour similar to black Africans. In the context of the particular line of discussion references to "people of African ancestry" would probably be less than clear.

 

[thorium1010]

"Negroid" is still sometimes used scientifically to refer to persons who have features and skin colour similar to black Africans. In the context of the particular line of discussion references to "people of African ancestry" would probably be less than clear.

IN the context of the present thread , black people in US refer usually to people of african ancestory. But there are people with dark skin (or black people, which refers to their skin color) who are not of african ancestory.

Negroid is an old term reffering to cranial features of a person of african ancestory. It is a very old term, used to clasify races in forensic and anthropology studies, before genetics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negroid

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

IN the context of the present thread , black people in US refer usually to people of african ancestory. But there are people with dark skin (or black people, which refers to their skin color) who are not of african ancestory.

Negroid is an old term reffering to cranial features of a person of african ancestory. It is a very old term, used to clasify races in forensic and anthropology studies, before genetics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negroid

In the context of the particular discussion the poster was referring to the theory that all "races" came out of Africa. That would seem to fit in the domain of "forensic archeology" which is apparently, according to that wiki article, one of the few disciplines that still uses the term.

 

[thorium1010]

In the context of the particular discussion the poster was referring to the theory that all "races" came out of Africa. That would seem to fit in the domain of "forensic archeology" which is apparently, according to that wiki article, one of the few disciplines that still uses the term.

In the context of particular discussion , referring to out of africa theory , using the term negroid is pretty much useless .

No one would know how someone looked like many thousands of years ago and more so they probably looked not much different from each other. Africans now, might not be the same as the africans 50,000 yrs ago. So how would you characterize their features then ? (i.e. using the term negroid ). Simply put the term is Useless.

BTW, I would not like to continue this discussion further.