Why does gravity play a role in the energy of the universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the role of gravity in the energy dynamics of the universe, particularly in the context of the Big Bang. Participants explore concepts related to energy, gravitational effects, and the nature of explosions in physics, touching on theoretical implications and measurements in cosmology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the energy resulting from the Big Bang is so explosive and how something can emerge from nothing with such high energy.
  • One participant suggests that gravitational energy may be viewed as a negative form of energy, potentially leading to a total energy of the universe being zero, where positive energy from matter is balanced by negative gravitational energy and dark energy.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between the size of an object and its energy, with a participant proposing that smaller objects are more tightly bound by energy, thus possessing more energy.
  • Participants debate the concept of the "exact moment of an explosion," particularly in relation to the Big Bang, noting that measurements and definitions of time and mass are crucial and can vary based on the chosen standards.
  • One participant emphasizes that the understanding of the Big Bang and the beginning of time is contingent on how measurements are made, suggesting that different definitions could imply no definitive beginning.
  • Another participant mentions that gravitational effects indicate the presence of energy, discussing the energy dynamics of an apple in a gravitational field.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the nature of energy and gravity, with no clear consensus reached on the implications of these concepts or the specifics of the Big Bang. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing ideas presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence on definitions and measurement standards in discussing energy and gravity, indicating that assumptions about constancy and the nature of physical quantities may influence interpretations.

Lacy33
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Why is the energy coming as a result of a Big Bang so explosive as to burst into universe(s)?

How can something coming from nothing have so much energy?

Why is it in physics, the smaller something is the more energy it has?

What is, in physics, the exact moment of an explosion?

Please
 
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Unknown. But fun to speculate.
 
Hi Shoshana!
Shoshana said:
Why is the energy coming as a result of a Big Bang so explosive as to burst into universe(s)?

How can something coming from nothing have so much energy?
Gravitational energy can be thought of as a negative form of energy, the more you use it the bigger it gets, like my overdraft. The total energy of the universe may well be zero, the positive energy of the matter universe being canceled out by the negative energy of the gravitational field and any Dark Energy lying around.
Why is it in physics, the smaller something is the more energy it has?
Because it is more tightly bound by that energy.
What is, in physics, the exact moment of an explosion?
I take it that you are referring to the 'explosion' of the BB?

It all depends on how you measure it.

You cannot speak of anything unless you have some way of experiencing that phenomenon. In physics we measure and compare observables with some definitive standard, a block of platinum in a Paris safe or a specific emission line of a particular caesium atom for example.

At the earliest moments of the BB there were no such atoms around to define mass, length or time and so these physical quantities have to be carefully extrapolated from regions where they do exist and can be measured, basically that means all the way back to planet Earth.

In order to extrapolate from here to there we have to assume and then define something to be constant over that distance. In GR it is energy-momentum that is conserved and the mass of an atom that is defined thereby to be constant. In so doing the energy of a photon is not conserved and so they show red shift when transmitted from 'there to here'. Defining a second by the 'tick' of an atomic clock one finds the universe appears to have a beginning at the BB, at least according to the standard theory of GR unadulterated by quantum effects. It is not only the beginning of the universe but also the beginning of time as there was no time, i.e. no means of measuring time, at t<0.

However if we take, for example, the frequency (inverse) of a photon as the 'tick' of our clock you find the BB is translated into the infinite past and there was no 'beginning'.

It depends on how you measure it.

Garth
 
Garth said:
Gravitational energy can be thought of as a negative form of energy, the more you use it the bigger it gets, like my overdraft. The total energy of the universe may well be zero, the positive energy of the matter universe being canceled out by the negative energy of the gravitational field and any Dark Energy lying around.Because it is more tightly bound by that energy.

Attractive Gravity is a "curvature of space" which indicates the presence of energy.

You may be thinking that an "apple on a planet" has less energy than "apple
far off the planet" which is true for the pair of apple+planet. But the
gravity itself is the indiciation of the presence of positive energy density.
 

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