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Product and gas from reacting vinegar(C2H4O2) with potash(K2CO3)

by JGM_14
Tags: potashk2co3, product, reacting, vinegarc
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JGM_14
#1
Apr16-07, 10:33 PM
P: 158
what would be the end products be if i reacted vinegar(C2H4O2) with potash(K2CO3) and a gas was given off?
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mrjeffy321
#2
Apr16-07, 11:30 PM
Sci Advisor
P: 882
This reaction is very similar to the reaction between vinegar and baking soda....what do you know about that reaction that you can apply here.

A 'better' way to write the chemical formula for vinegar (acetic acid) is HC2H3O2 since it helps you see that it is an acid with that leading H. Some people prefer writting it as CH3OOH aswell.

In the vinegar and baking soda reaction,
HC2H3O2 + NaHCO3 --> H2O + CO2
Except you now want to substitute Potassium Carbonate for the Sodium Bicarbonate. How do you think this will change the reaction?
symbolipoint
#3
Apr17-07, 12:47 AM
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from mrjeffy321:
HC2H3O2 since it helps you see that it is an acid with that leading H. Some people prefer writting it as CH3OOH aswell.
A small misprint there. If you meant acetic acid, best say CH3COOH (you just forgot one of the carbons)

mrjeffy321
#4
Apr17-07, 12:55 AM
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P: 882
Product and gas from reacting vinegar(C2H4O2) with potash(K2CO3)

Quote Quote by symbolipoint View Post
from mrjeffy321: A small misprint there. If you meant acetic acid, best say CH3COOH (you just forgot one of the carbons)
Yes, of course. I guess you can tell which way I prefer writting it.
JGM_14
#5
Apr22-07, 04:26 PM
P: 158
Quote Quote by mrjeffy321 View Post
In the vinegar and baking soda reaction,
HC2H3O2 + NaHCO3 --> H2O + CO2
Except you now want to substitute Potassium Carbonate for the Sodium Bicarbonate. How do you think this will change the reaction?

If I don't have all the end products ( where did the sodium go to) I dont know where the potassium will go in the end reaction. Follow the law of conservation of mass. Matter cannot be created or destroyed only changes form, under normal conditions but there are always exceptions to every rule and regulation.

When wood burns or undergoes an exothermic reaction and then decomposes into ammonia (NH4) and potassium carbonate (K2CO3) what would be the reactants (_____+_____+heat=NH4+K2CO3)? Aren't most plant fibers made of cellulose?
How would one go about making potassium bicarbonate (CHKO3)?



When you burn sugar in oxygen is the ash carbon and the gas water (C6H12O6+heat=6C+6H2O)?
What chemicals can remove burnt sugar from a metal like stainless steel?
mrjeffy321
#6
Apr22-07, 04:33 PM
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P: 882
Quote Quote by JGM_14 View Post
If I don't have all the end products ( where did the sodium go to) I dont know where the potassium will go in the end reaction.

When you burn sugar in oxygen is the ash carbon and the gas water (C6H12O6+heat=6C+6H2O)?
In the Sodium BiCarbonate reaction, the Sodium ion is left behind in solution along with the acetate ion to form Sodium Acetate.
In the case of Potassium Carbonate, it would be Potassium Acetate.

Ideally, assuming complete combustion, when sugar is burn in an Oxygen gas atmosphere, the only two products of the reaction are Carbon Dioxide and water. The ash/residue left behind is a result of incomplete combustion and should be mostly Carbon and uncombusted sugar.
JGM_14
#7
Apr26-07, 06:48 PM
P: 158
can nitrates (NO3) of an element be formed in air, because the air is 70% nitrogen and 21% oxygen?
And I still want to know how I can make Potassium bicarbonate, sorry if i seem impatient.
mrjeffy321
#8
Apr26-07, 07:44 PM
Sci Advisor
P: 882
No, although the required elements are present (Nitrogen + Oxygen), the Nitrate ion will not be spontaneously formed in the air. Under certain [extreme] conditions, Nitrogen Dioxide (NO2) can be formed and this can go on to be further oxidized to NO3 and dissolved in water to form Nitric acid. The Nitric acid can then go into making Nitrate salts. But just sticking something out in an air atmosphere and getting some Nitrate compound is not going to happen.

Potassium Bicarbonate can be produced a number of ways I am sure, but probably none of them are worth the effort since you can probably buy it pretty easily/cheaply
One [unbalanced] reaction which yields KHCO3 is:
K2CO3 + CO2 + H2O --> KHCO3
JGM_14
#9
Apr27-07, 07:35 PM
P: 158
the reaction would be K2CO3+CO2+H2O=2KHCO3
any way i could just use solids and liquids?
I don't like working with gases too much extra work and equipment.
The alchemests used to make potassium nitrate using animal dung exposed to air, of course they also used urine to make phosphorous compounds and ammonium chloride.
mrjeffy321
#10
Apr27-07, 08:07 PM
Sci Advisor
P: 882
Dissolving 1 mole of Potassium Carbonate in water will yield 2 moles of K+ ions and 1 mole of Carbonate ions in solution.
The carbonate ion is the conjugate base of a weak acid….the Bicarbonate ion. An equilibrium will result between the formation of Carbonate ions, Bicarbonate ions, and Carbonic acid (the weak acid which the Bicarbonate ion is the conjugate base of).
In solution, most of the Carbonate ions will (excuse the technical term) ‘suck up’ Hydronium ions (H+) from the water to form the Bicarbonate ion. Since the Bicarbonate ion is a weak acid, the equilibrium will lie towards Bicarbonate ion formation.

So you have something like this,
K2CO3 (s) --H2O--> 2 K+ (aq) + CO3-2 (aq)
Taking into account the H+ from the water,
CO3-2 (aq) + H+ (aq) <==> HCO3- (aq)
So we are left with,
K+ (aq) + OH- (aq) + K+ (aq) + HCO3- (aq)
Which is effectively the same as a solution of Potassium Hydroxide and Potassium Bicarbonate (discounting the fact that the Bicarbonate solution would form Carbonic acid and not stay as KHCO3 for long),
KOH (aq) + KHCO3 (aq).

But then one will need to extract out the Potassium Bicarbonate from solution. You could try boiling the solution down and trying to get the KHCO3 to precipitate out, but I am far from 100% sure that this will work.


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