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The Bermuda triangle

by Razi Abid
Tags: bermuda, triangle
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Razi Abid
#1
May25-04, 03:18 AM
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The bermuda triangle, also known as the devils triangle is a mystery for scientists today. Some say that it has an immense gravitational pull in that area. Some say that there is a "hole in the sky" in that area. But still there is no proof why many ships and planes have disappeared after they have crossed it. My question is that, do anyone know a logical reason about this?
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Andre
#2
May25-04, 05:21 AM
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Oh yes, no problem

First of all, there is a lot of confirmation bias about the horrors of the Bermuda Triangle. Meaning that all the catastrophic events in that area are logged and remembered, whilst others somewhere else are fading from memory.

Second there is a lot of alleged catastrophes attributed to the BT that did not took place there at all. Like the flight of those Avengers after reconstruction it became clear that they actually got lost in the Gulf of Mexico having missed the Florida pensinsula.

Third, it is percieved that the area may contain a lot of unstable clathrate, that could convert the ocean to a bubble stream locally, in which ships would sink. See this page

Finally. There is nothing wrong with the gravity in that area and magnetic compasses are known to be sensitive to several disturbances. This happens all over the world but the confirmation bias suggest that it happens a lot more in the BT.

No magic, just plain physics.
Phobos
#3
May26-04, 01:09 PM
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I recall hearing another explanation...

It's just an area with a lot of shipping/flight traffic so, statistically, there is bound to be more accidents than in areas with no traffic.

Andre
#4
May27-04, 01:20 AM
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The Bermuda triangle

Well, there is no North Sea triangle
killerinstinct
#5
May28-04, 02:27 PM
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Just how God made the world i guess!
franznietzsche
#6
Jun4-04, 03:39 AM
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There is a known geological deposit of methane gas (an extremely large one) in the northern part of the bermuda triangle. it has been shown that a massive enough bubble escaping from the seabed could easily sink any man made ship (obviously, the bigger the ship, the bigg the bubble would ahve to be) and it takes only a very small amount of methane in the air to displace enough oxygen to cause a propeller plane to stall (not to mention the effect the lighter air density would have on the altitudemeter). Not saying that this is necessarily the cause of all or even the majority of the incidents but it is possible that given the high traffic and such a hazard that the high number of incidents could be at least partially caused by this.
Ivan Seeking
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Jun5-04, 04:26 PM
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thank you franznietzsche.

Yes, it is starting to appear that this is the true Bermuda Triangle Story. A few genuinely unsual disappearances were spun into a legend. The oversight has been that a few very unusual disappearances did happen. These disappearances were a hint at the dangers to shipping and oil drilling that large deposits of methyl hydroxide [methyl hydrate?] can pose. [I think this is the proper salt form found in the ocean floor]. When water hits a layer of this salt, a tremendous amount of gas can be generated. At least one oil platform hit one of these deposits while drilling and the platform was lost.

It is now suggested that an event of this type can be so large that it can have global effects. I will try to find some previously referenced links a little later.
Ivan Seeking
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Jun5-04, 11:56 PM
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Quote Quote by Andre
Third, it is percieved that the area may contain a lot of unstable clathrate, that could convert the ocean to a bubble stream locally, in which ships would sink. See this page

No magic, just plain physics.
As in the end all things must be; though they may seem like magic for a time.
Cod
#9
Jun7-04, 07:25 AM
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I was watching the Discovery Channel a few months back when they did a special on the Bermuda Triangle. One of the scientists claimed that many of the older radios on planes as well as boats would get jammed in that area causing them to lose contact as they go through. He then went on to say that most of the "lost contact" only occurs anywhere from 5 - 15 minutes at any given time. And 9 times out of 10, whenever an airplane or boat loses radio contact, the initial reaction is....."OMG ITS GOING DOWN!". When the truth is they are probably just having a dandy time in the air or on the water.

Now, I don't know how factual that is since I've never tried to talk on the radio while going through the Bermuda Triangle. I just figured I would share that with everyone.
Ivan Seeking
#10
Jun8-04, 01:43 AM
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Clathrate gun kills Pleistocene mega fauna.
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=16702

The great gas attack: Permian Mass Extinction Theory
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=7161

Gulf experiment seeks to explain the Bermuda Triangle
http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pb...8010471&Ref=AR

The Bermuda triangle
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthr...1&page=1&pp=15

Darnit! I know we have at least one more thread with some good links. Will try to find as time allows.
Ivan Seeking
#11
Jun8-04, 03:15 AM
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More:

Earth 'shook off' ancient warming
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=13819

Solving the mystery of Venus
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthr...&threadid=2974

It's a load of gas
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=7680

Also, something like this catches my eye as potentially related. I saw another report like this from this same area in which the sounds were thought to be coming from far out at sea.
Sonic boom? Earthquake? Big bang theories abound
http://www.charleston.net/stories/08...c_02boom.shtml

Finally, it strikes me that considering the potential connection of this idea to mass extinctions, or at least that this may all have global implications, the name "Devil's Triangle" may have been more appropriate after all.
Ivan Seeking
#12
Jun8-04, 04:34 PM
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From the last link above:

So what's left?One theory batted around was that it could be "Seneca Guns," a folk explanation used to describe unexplained booms often associated with the coast of North Carolina. Such booms have been experienced in North America since before the Age of Flight, some as early as the 18th century.
Surely nothing definitive but it caught my interest.
Ivan Seeking
#13
Jun8-04, 05:05 PM
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Methane clathrate hydrate is a form of water ice that contains a large amount of methane within its crystal structure. Originally thought to occur only in the outer regions of the solar system where temperatures are low and water ice common, extremely large deposits of methane clathrates have been found under sediments on the ocean floors of Earth. Methane clathrates are common constituents of the shallow marine geosphere, and they occur both in deep sedimentary structures, and as outcrops on the ocean floor. Methane hydrates are believed to form by migration of gas from depth along geological faults, followed by precipitation, or crystallization, on contact of the rising gas stream with cold sea water. [continued]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate
Ivan Seeking
#14
Jun9-04, 08:27 PM
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I was looking around for a transcript from flight 19 - the squadron that so famously disappeared without a trace. Maybe this is from another incident...I'm not sure, but it has been reported that in one transmission from a plane that was lost, the pilot reported that the sea looked very strange. I think he even said something about the ocean boiling. I will post this if I can find anything significant. In the mean time, I noticed a couple of interesting facts.

From the Navy's Bermuda Triangle FAQ page.
The "Bermuda or Devil's Triangle" is an imaginary area located off the southeastern Atlantic coast of the United States, which is noted for a high incidence of unexplained losses of ships, small boats, and aircraft. The apexes of the triangle are generally accepted to be Bermuda, Miami, Fla., and San Juan, Puerto Rico.
Does this mean that a high incidence of unexplained disappearances is a fact? I wasn't aware of any significant statistics here.

First, the "Devil's Triangle" is one of the two places on earth that a magnetic compass does point towards true north.
I did not know that.

An area called the "Devil's Sea" by Japanese and Filipino seamen, located off the east coast of Japan, also exhibits the same magnetic characteristics. It is also known for its mysterious disappearances.
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq8-1.htm
Ivan Seeking
#15
Jun10-04, 02:00 AM
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I am just posting interesting, related information found as I look around.

.... Today, methane hydrates have been detected around most continental margins. Around the United States, large deposits have been identified and studied in Alaska, the west coast from California to Washington, the east coast, including the Blake Ridge offshore of the Carolinas, and in the Gulf of Mexico.

In 1995, the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) completed its most detailed assessment of U.S. gas hydrate resources. The USGS study estimated the in-place gas resource within the gas hydrates of the United States to range from 112,000 trillion cubic feet to 676,000 trillion cubic feet, with a mean value of 320,000 trillion cubic feet of gas. Subsequent refinements of the data in 1997 using information from the Ocean Drilling Program have suggested that the mean should be adjusted slightly downward, to around 200,000 trillion cubic feet -- still larger by several orders of magnitude than previously thought and dwarfing the estimated 1,400 trillion cubic feet of conventional recovered gas resources and reserves in the United States.

Worldwide, estimates of the natural gas potential of methane hydrates approach 400 million trillion cubic feet -- a staggering figure compared to the 5,000 trillion cubic feet that make up the world's currently known gas reserves.

This huge potential, alone, warrants a new look at advanced technologies that might one day reliably and cost-effectively detect and produce natural gas from methane hydrates.[continued]
http://www.fe.doe.gov/programs/oilgas/hydrates/

Tapping Ocean Methane Deposits
INEEL Microbiologist Joins Japanese on Expedition to Tap Marine-methane Deposits...

...The crew drilled into a marine shelf region 60 kilometers off Japan's Omae Zaki peninsula over the Nankai Trough through 950 meters of water. The area is known to contain large amounts of gas hydrate—methane gas molecules trapped in lattices of ice—and may also contain extractable natural gas in formations considerably deeper than the hydrate deposits. For the Japanese, the purpose of the expedition was to explore the possibilities of harvesting the fuel. [continued]
http://www.inel.gov/featurestories/0...hanogens.shtml

From a "Planetary Grid" of Devil's triangles.
http://www.crystalinks.com/devilstrimap.jpg

http://www.crystalinks.com/bermuda.html
Ivan Seeking
#16
Jun11-04, 05:17 PM
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If you look at the jpg linked above

http://www.crystalinks.com/devilstrimap.jpg

you will see ten "Devil's Triangles" mapped over the globe using their planetary grid

http://www.crystalinks.com/grid.html

For crying out loud! So anyway...I am just looking through the material to see if anything interesting pops out. If you look you will see that only one of the triangles is "predicted" to be on land. In particular, it outlines Algeria rather nicely. So I looked to see if anything interesting pops up in Algeria.

Maybe something a little bit interesting...
Algeria has the fifth-largest reserves of natural gas in the world and is the second-largest gas exporter
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...s/ag.html#Econ

Anyway, it seemed worth a post.
Andre
#17
Jun11-04, 05:52 PM
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Thats another world, Ivan, with crop circles, ET's, poleshifts of 5 may 2003, the end of the world on 21 December 2012 etc, etc, Hogwarts is probably their university. The problem is however, we, Muggles, have no idea why all their predictions fail consistently.

There are no scary stories for almst all the other nodes in the grid.
Ivan Seeking
#18
Jun11-04, 06:58 PM
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Quote Quote by Andre
Thats another world, Ivan, with crop circles, ET's, poleshifts of 5 may 2003, the end of the world on 21 December 2012 etc, etc, Hogwarts is probably their university. The problem is however, we, Muggles, have no idea why all their predictions fail consistently.
True enough.

There are no scary stories for almst all the other nodes in the grid.
I noticed the reference to the Japanese Devil's triangle as well as methane hydrate deposits in the same area. What interest me in these sites are not the theories but the personal accounts and legends. I just thought the Algerian thing was a little interesting. By no means do I mean to give any credence to their “theories”.

Notice that the "Seneca Guns" are a myth from the Carolina coastal area that goes back to the 1800s. Methane hydrate deposits are also known to exist in this area. I am obviously wondering if these deposits and an occasional large release of gas may be the Seneca Guns. It is starting to seem that these large releases of gas may account for several legends and myths. I also noticed that these are capable of producing freak waves. Thought to be only a mariner's myth until they were seen by satellite, now controversy exists over the source of these waves. According to some of the information linked, these Clathrate deposits can produce freak waves [edit: I should say major events. A clear link to "freak waves" is not made].

Freak waves:
Freak waves up to 30 metres high (100 feet) that rise up from calm seas to destroy ships do exist, researchers argue.
For centuries sailors have blamed mysterious surges of water for unexplainable sinkings but the claims have always attracted plenty of scepticism.

However, there is now growing evidence, including satellite imagery, which suggests the massive waves may be more than just maritime myth. [continued]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2450407.stm

Finding the formula for freak waves

Freak waves are a major threat to ships and offshore structures such as oilrigs, but they are notoriously difficult to predict. This could be set to change following simulations of water wave dynamics by physicists at the University of Torino in Italy. Miguel Onorato and colleagues adapted the Schrödinger equation - which usually describes the wave-like properties of quantum particles - to establish the sea conditions that give rise to rogue waves (M Onorato et al 2001 Phys. Rev. Lett. 86 5831). [continued]
http://www.physicsweb.org/article/news/05/6/10

Clathrates as a cause of tsunamis

During the formation of gas hydrates, methane and water become immobilized within the sediment pore spaces. Because of the presence of these solids (instead of pore waters and gas), the sediment can not become consolidated because the water can not be expulsed with increasing overburden as more sedimentation occurs. Cementation of the sediments does not occur when pore spaces are filled with hydrates (solid ice) rather than with water, from which minerals such as calcite can be precipitated. Gas hydrate rich sediments are thus cemented by the hydrates, which may occupy much of the sedimentary section, but which are not stable when the temperature rises or the pressure falls.

This may lead to problems during continued sedimentation and further burial of the gas hydrates: the hydrates will become buried so deeply that the temperature will increase according to the regional geothermal gradient. The hydrates will then no longer be stable, and will disintegrate into a liquid water and gas mixture. The basal zone of the gas hydrate becomes under-consolidated, possibly over-pressured because of the release of the methane, leading to the development of a zone with low shear strength where failure could be triggered and massive landslides could occur. With the landslides, more gas could escape.

Several examples of possibly gas-hydrate linked extremely large slumps have been described, e.g., on the Norwegian continental margin (Bugge et al., 1987), where debris from the giant, three-part Storegga slide, over 450 m thick, is spread over a distance of 800 km. One of the Storegga slides caused a tsunami to deposit sediment up to 4 m above the high water line in Scotland (Nisbet and Piper, 1998). There are more of these mega slides in the same region (Laberg et al., 2000). [continued]
http://ethomas.web.wesleyan.edu/ees123/clathrate.htm


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