Swine flu vaccination

**berkeman** · Nov11-09, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by berkeman

Good point, and yes, they are getting vaccinated as high risk priority patients. But since the vaccine wasn't available at the beginning of the outbreak in many areas (and still isn't in some areas), the more folks getting vaccinated, the better.

And although my sister and mother in law have good health insurance coverage, and can now get the vaccine at their primary care physician's offices, that is not true for a large number of other at-risk people.

As a member of our local Medical Reserve Corps (MRC) and Community Emergency Response Team (CERT), I have been helping at the mass immunization clinics that our county Public Health Department has been sponsoring for un-insured folks. Last weekend we had about 3000 people come through our Point of Dispensing (POD) clinic in Fremont (CA) in 5 hours, and this coming weekend we expect a similar number at a POD in Newark. We've trained and exercised these mass dispensing clinics before, but this is the first time we've activated them on a large scale for real.

http://www.acphd.org/H1N1/documents/...le_Current.pdf

.

For those interested, here is a training video that we use for our volunteers for the POD sites. The video is geared more towards a terrorist weaponized anthrax attack, and our response with antibiotics dispensing at the PODs, but if you just substitute "H1N1 vaccination" for "receive antibiotics", the overall flow is pretty much the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnCL630QQWQ

I was especially impressed by the Command Staff at our H1N1 POD in Fremont last weekend, by the way that they worked to find bottlenecks and fix them real-time. Very impressive and experienced folks to work with. But they get a lot of practice at wildland fires and MCAs. Great experience.

**DanP** · Nov11-09, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Evo

Severe reactions to the vaccine are extremely rare. They are tracking this more closely now because of the irrational fear of vaccines being proliferated through the internet. i posted an articvle about this in another thread.

Maybe, but its not the point. As far as I know, there is still outgoing research in immunology on the topics of vaccines and autoimmune diseases. The point is , if you don't need a inoculation, don't do it. Irrational fear tends to get substance when it happens to your child, Id say :P

**Ygggdrasil** · Nov11-09, 11:42 AM

Children have also died because of H1N1, so there are irrational fears for on both sides of the issue. You have to look at the risks on both sides and decide whether it is a greater risk to be vaccinated or not to be vaccinated? What are the risks associated with getting vaccinated? How often do adverse reactions happen? If you are not vaccinated, how likely are you to get H1N1? What are the potential consequences of getting H1N1?

**martharon** · Nov12-09, 05:26 AM

Might be i hope to avoid the unnecessary rise in cost of the vaccine they have decided so.

**mgb_phys** · Nov12-09, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Ygggdrasil

You have to look at the risks on both sides and decide whether it is a greater risk to be vaccinated or not to be vaccinated?

It's also a population game, the more other people are vaccinated the less chance of you catching H1N1 - so it's best for everybody but you to be vaccinated.

**vanesch** · Nov12-09, 10:15 AM

I'm in doubt, actually. Here in France, there will be a national vaccination campaign, and kids at school (with parents' approval) will be vaccinated around the end of the month. I would tend to have my kid have his shot, but my wife is rather of the opposite opinion (not because of disinformation, but her idea is that you should only take medicine if there's a real need - and the flu is no real need for her - kids do get sometimes a flu, this has been so since years without any discussion around it, so why should one do anything different now). I think I will follow her PoV, for the trivial egoistic reason that if ever things turn out sour, it will be her fault, and not mine...

I myself will get a flu shot if I can. I have taken flu shots for the last 15 years or more, and don't see why I shouldn't get this one. I already took the "normal" flu shot, but as I'm in no special target group, I will get my shot probably pretty late (mid-december ?). I simply don't want to ruin my skiing holidays with a flu - but that's about as far as my reasoning goes.

**Moonbear** · Nov12-09, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Ygggdrasil

Children have also died because of H1N1, so there are irrational fears for on both sides of the issue. You have to look at the risks on both sides and decide whether it is a greater risk to be vaccinated or not to be vaccinated? What are the risks associated with getting vaccinated? How often do adverse reactions happen? If you are not vaccinated, how likely are you to get H1N1? What are the potential consequences of getting H1N1?

The point is that this particular vaccine may have more side effects than other flu vaccines. The chance of an otherwise healthy child dying of flu are miniscule. The deaths being reported from the 2009 H1N1 are primarily people with other underlying conditions. Compared to other strains of flu, the symptoms are actually quite mild. So, to me, it is not very sensible to get a vaccination that has a high risk of side effects to treat a mild illness with a low risk of serious complications. The only thing "special" about swine flu is that it isn't following the regular seasonal patterns of other strains of flu. I have had a lot of physicians tell me that if they were not working in the clinics where they needed to be concerned about their patients, they would not be getting this vaccination either.

I think it is completely reasonable for people to decide they want to wait and see what the data are on incidence and severity of adverse reactions to this current vaccine in the general population before they get it for themselves. The reality is that there isn't much evidence of adverse reactions because there isn't much data on it. This year's vaccine recipients are the experimental subjects who will provide the dataset of adverse reactions.

**martharon** · Nov13-09, 05:00 AM

Dont know for sure is it true that if a normal person takes the swine flu vaccination will it be fatal? , if thats the case, then it might also be a reason.

**hypatia** · Nov13-09, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by martharon

Dont know for sure is it true that if a normal person takes the swine flu vaccination will it be fatal? , if thats the case, then it might also be a reason.

Their is no truth to that statement what so ever. Thousands of normal people have received the vaccination with no bad effects at all.

**DanP** · Nov13-09, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by vanesch

I think I will follow her PoV, for the trivial egoistic reason that if ever things turn out sour, it will be her fault, and not mine...

Way to go !

Originally Posted by vanesch

I myself will get a flu shot if I can. I have taken flu shots for the last 15 years or more, and don't see why I shouldn't get this one.

I never took any flue vaccine , and frankly cant recall in the last 10 years if I ever got flue.
Judging by the intensity of symptoms and recovery times, I don't believe I ever got anything else but colds. One time it got serious, but it turns out it was bacterial and I had to take antibiotics. My holidays were never ruined.

I see no much use to take immunizations only for the sake of it.

**vanesch** · Nov13-09, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by DanP

Way to go !

I never took any flue vaccine , and frankly cant recall in the last 10 years if I ever got flue.
Judging by the intensity of symptoms and recovery times, I don't believe I ever got anything else but colds.

I had the flu twice (at least, that's what the doctor told me back then - without any specific test), and I really got it badly: 2 weeks in bed, and several weeks afterwards not quite ok. I think each time I got a bacterial complication following it.

Since then, I always take a flu shot. Not because I "fear for my life" but rather because I want to avoid the unpleasantness of being so ill.

**DrGreg** · Nov13-09, 02:25 PM

I think one of the reasons governments are worried about swine flu is the risk that large numbers of people could fall ill at the same time. This could leave essential services understaffed.

**CRGreathouse** · Nov13-09, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by DrGreg

I think one of the reasons governments are worried about swine flu is the risk that large numbers of people could fall ill at the same time. This could leave essential services understaffed.

That's precisely why I got (had to get?) my shot.

**Borek** · Nov13-09, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by CRGreathouse

Originally Posted by DrGreg

large numbers of people could fall ill at the same time.

That's precisely why I got (had to get?) my shot.

And now you will get ill at some other time?

**berkeman** · Nov13-09, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by Borek

And now you will get ill at some other time?

Yeah, but I think he had a good point. At my work, that's one of the contingency plans that we've had to work on because of H1N1. We have a number of employees with VPN access that regularly telecommute, but to have 10x that number with VPN access for a few weeks would be a very expensive option.

**vanesch** · Nov14-09, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by berkeman

Yeah, but I think he had a good point. At my work, that's one of the contingency plans that we've had to work on because of H1N1. We have a number of employees with VPN access that regularly telecommute, but to have 10x that number with VPN access for a few weeks would be a very expensive option.

This is already the case at our place. There was a rather drastic plan beginning september, when a peak of infection was expected beginning of october: even planning to put some healthy people in quarantine, to "keep them" for during the peak (essentially reactor operators), and send all the rest home, with VPN connections in order not to compromise the health of those that are absolutely necessary. But that peak turned out not to be the case (maybe due to the exceptionally nice weather we had for most of the autumn). Now that vaccination campaigns have started, unless we get a sudden very strong peak in the coming 2 or 3 weeks, this worry is probably behind us.