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Copper/magnetic/ionized bracelets: do they really work, and how? |
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| May8-10, 04:57 PM | #18 |
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Copper/magnetic/ionized bracelets: do they really work, and how?
Due to my wife's conviction that the copper bracelets help with her pain, I had done some checking and found that copper could play a role in relieving pain. So if it was absorbed through the skin, at a glance it seems plausible that it may help with pain. Not saying it is, but just that it does provide one potential explanation for the claims. This is not to be confused with the claims about magnetism, ionization, or voodoo magic. Those are different claims altogether. This is about copper.
She had mentioned it again recently so I did another bit of googling and found this. It would be interesting to see if we can find any related information in published journals, one way or the other. I wondered about this myself and then found that others are making this claim. Honestly, I thought this was all akin to the "magic pyramid power" claims popular in the 1970s and 80s. I never knew that there was even a claim of a scientific explanation. |
| May9-10, 01:47 AM | #19 |
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Not to say that Tsu isn't feeling what she's feeling or experiencing, Ivan, because evidently she is. Which, great! You mentioned in an earlier post that Tsu is "no dummy", which again, is true. But what's also true is that the placebo effect doesn't require "a dummy" for it to take effect.
I read recently about testing people who were being helped by sugar pills and whatnot and how by looking at their brain with an MRI, the exact same area of the brain that's stimulated by the medication that helps or affects a certain problem or issue is the same area of the brain that lights up when people are experiencing a placebo effect. Meaning that the trigger necessary to get the brain's co-operation in releasing chemicals to, say, relieve pain, can be stimulated by agents other than medications. And there's not a thing wrong with that. I'm a huge fan of the placebo effect. If you can get your body to do its thing spontaneously, why not? |
| May9-10, 01:58 AM | #20 |
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That's all fine, but there is a potentially active role for absorbed copper.
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| May9-10, 03:38 AM | #21 |
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Just doing a little legwork for now
Helmar Dollwet - potential mechanism of action for copper as an anti-inflammatory http://www.springerlink.com/content/h3662n4445130t3g/ Dr. Elson Haas - no published papers found. Appears to be fringe http://www.elsonhaas.com/ http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/63/5/797S.pdf |
| May12-10, 02:36 AM | #22 |
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| May12-10, 09:59 PM | #23 |
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I just want to be clear here. We are talking about a 1" wide for maximun skin contact,100% pure, copper bracelet. No magnets, no 'ionization'... there is absolutely no scientific evidence to support *those* claims. My tendonitis starts to flare up and I wear my bracelet for a few days and the pain is significantly diminished. There is no possibility of 'letting it rest' to heal. My job is very physical and I can't NOT use my right arm. I can usually maintain the low level of pain by wearing the bracelet to bed at night only. If I stop wearing the bracelet, the tendonitis returns.
Call me a whacko if you wish. I've been called much worse by people a lot more cool than you science geeks!!!
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| May14-10, 09:39 AM | #24 |
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It appears that the 1976 study by Walker et al (300 subjects) is the only such study of the therapeutic effects cited in literature. Or does anyone have a reference showing this has been replicated? It would definitely help if there were more studies that independently investigated this effect.
Georgina, the cited paper claims a significant effect beyond placebo. |
| May14-10, 09:59 AM | #25 |
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If your record correlates to what you got beyond just statistical noise, then I'd say we have something. BTW, people should know that copper OXIDE layer on pure copper develops in nanoseconds upon exposure and continues to grow over time. So what the skin comes in contact with is not pure copper, but various levels and forms of copper oxide. The salt and moisture from your skin enhanced the formation of such oxide layer. Zz. |
| May14-10, 10:14 AM | #26 |
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Copper is not absorbed through the skin to any meaningful extent, especially not metallic copper. And you should be glad that it isn't. It's a quite toxic metal in anything above trace concentrations.
For that reason, copper deficiency is extremely rare. And to the extent that it exists, (e.g. Menke's disease) it is not due to deficient copper uptake, but rather the over-expression of copper-binding proteins, which lead to copper accumulation in certain cells, and deficiencies elsewhere. I.e. bad copper distribution. |
| May14-10, 12:25 PM | #27 |
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| May14-10, 02:19 PM | #28 |
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| May14-10, 02:24 PM | #29 |
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Gokul, it does seem that the literature on this is sparse. Note also the first paper cited was from 1988; twelve years after study that you mentioned. So twelve years after the clinical study of bracelets, it appears that the dermal absorption of copper [metal] was still in question. |
| May14-10, 05:19 PM | #30 |
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| May14-10, 06:07 PM | #31 |
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While I know that the information found so far is very limited - hopefully more can be found with more searches - I would like to know what is lacking, beyond quantity, in order to construct a complete scientific argument, in terms of physiology, biochemistry, molecular biology, and whatever else might be invoked, that copper bracelets could be effective in treating joint inflamation? Is it even possible in principle to do so?
One missing link so far seems to be a description of how the copper would be carried from the dermal tissues to the point of inflamation. Another would be the chemistry of the absorbed copper, and what form it might take along the way that allows for the biochemistry described in the papers above. I would imagine that there could be a hundred or thousand questions or more buried in those discussions, so I don't mean to suggest that we have nearly enough to make an argument. However, is it possible to provide an outline of the pieces required to make the argument complete? |
| May14-10, 08:42 PM | #32 |
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| May14-10, 08:52 PM | #33 |
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While she has the bona fide bracelet on, no harm done. Switch it out with the fake for a few weeks and - if the effect is real - she'll be pretty quick to give you an unambiguous call on it. |
| May14-10, 11:52 PM | #34 |
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Uh, you don't seem to understand, she uses them because she is otherwise in pain. I wouldn't want her to even try. For one, I can't afford to lose my landscape maintenance partner this summer! We have over five acres of land to maintain. Perhaps we can play later, but for now this is a practical matter. It really doesn't matter why it works for her, as long as it does. I do have to add that, technically, this would be a blatent case of pseudoscience. It would not be a qualified study. It would certainly carry less weight than a properly controlled study using 300 people, as has already been cited. Tsu might want to play along, I don't know, but the results would not be scientific, as defined in the guidelines, in any case. |
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