Delocalised pi electrons in benzene

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the behavior of pi electrons in benzene, particularly regarding their delocalization and movement. Participants explore concepts related to resonance, molecular orbitals, and the implications of quantum mechanics on electron behavior within the benzene structure.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the nature of pi electron movement in benzene, suggesting that they do not move more than other electrons unless influenced by external factors like a magnetic field.
  • Others argue that resonance does not imply physical movement between structures but rather a quantum superposition of states.
  • A participant introduces the concept of the particle in a box from quantum mechanics, noting that electrons tend to spread out over larger areas to minimize energy.
  • One explanation posits that the delocalization of pi electrons in benzene arises because each pi orbital interacts with multiple neighboring orbitals, leading to a collective bonding structure rather than distinct double bonds.
  • There is a contention regarding the mobility of pi electrons, with some asserting that they are indeed more movable due to resonance, while others clarify that their movement is not necessarily faster than that of other electrons in different bonding scenarios.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature and implications of pi electron movement and resonance in benzene. There is no consensus on whether pi electrons are more movable than other electrons, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the interpretation of resonance and electron behavior.

Contextual Notes

Some claims depend on specific interpretations of quantum mechanics and molecular orbital theory, which may not be universally accepted. The discussion also highlights the complexity of the resonance concept and its implications for electron behavior.

Parbat
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Why do pi electrons in a benzene move?
 
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In what sense? They don't really move more or less than other electrons. (unless there's a magnetic field, in which case you get a ring current, which is cool)
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance_(chemistry)

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https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=261728
I never did get an answer
 
Granpa, I tried to answer the question in the other thread.
 
Resonance doesn't actually mean that the structure is moving back and forth between the different structures; they're not true reaction arrows. Rather, (in the VB theory picture) they're in a quantum superposition of the various resonance structures - all at the same time, but to different extents.

As for NO2, 5 + 6 +6 = 17 valence electrons. It can't possibly obey the octet rule with an odd number of electrons, since one of them must be unpaired. It's a radical.
 
Are you familiar with the particle in a box in quantum mechanics? One very important principle that this model system illustrates is that as the size of the box increases, the ground state energy of the electron decreases. Therefore, when an electron has an opportunity to "spread out" over a larger area it does so in order to lower its total energy.
 
Think of it this way: different resonance structures aren't descriptions of where electrons are, just where the electrons could be according to their wave functions.
 
I read this question as "Why does benzene have a ring of delocalised electrons rather than double bonds", the answer to which is:

Double bonds form when two pi orbitals which are next to each other overlap. However, in benzene, each pi orbital has two other pi orbitals next to it and hence, doesn't really form a bond with either of them, but instead forms a bond with both. This happens to all 6 pi orbitals in the molecule and you end up with a hexagonal/circular ring of delocalized electrons. Seeing as this ring is essentially just 1 big orbital, the electrons in each carbon's pi orbital can technically be anywhere in the ring, i.e they move around the ring.

Hope that helped.
 
alxm said:
In what sense? They don't really move more or less than other electrons. (unless there's a magnetic field, in which case you get a ring current, which is cool)
I don t understand.Pi electrons are more movable,aren t they?This is princip of the resonance,isn it?Pi electrons can easily move.Correct me if I am wrong.
 
  • #10
thedy said:
I don t understand.Pi electrons are more movable,aren t they?This is princip of the resonance,isn it?Pi electrons can easily move.Correct me if I am wrong.

As alxm said, they don't move any more than any other electrons. Electrons involve in a chemical bond move around in some confined area defined by the molecular orbital they inhabit. Most of the time, the molecular orbital is confined between two atoms. In the case of conjugated pi systems like benzene, the molecular orbital spans multiple atoms. So, the electrons are free to around in a larger volume, but they do not move any faster than electrons involved in other types of chemical bonds.

As for why the electrons are able to occupy a larger volume, see my explanation above. Molecular orbitals with larger volumes have lower energies than molecular orbitals with smaller volumes. Therefore, if given the chance, neighboring orbitals will combine to form larger orbitals.
 

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