Stupid Question about Python Learning Curve :D


by G037H3
Tags: curve, learning, python, stupid
G037H3
G037H3 is offline
#19
Oct21-10, 09:08 AM
P: 326
Quote Quote by davee123 View Post
Hard to say. You come off sounding arrogant and haughty, but hey, who are we to say that it's not deserved? I don't see any actual evidence one way or another. You want to try programming? Sure, give it a shot. Here's something to try-- see how far you can get with what you know about whatever type of language you want to use:

http://projecteuler.net/

It's probably a reasonably good test to see if you're cut out for programming. The first bunch are easy, then it starts to get more challenging. The first problems are pretty straightforward, and require some very basic programming knowledge. Then, it requires you to start needing to come up with inventive techniques and using math and logic in order to achieve the result. Eventually, it turns into extremely difficult challenges that only the top-notch programmers can solve.



I dunno-- The web stuff isn't really any easier, per se, it's just so much more accessible. A well-written website is actually reasonably challenging if you're writing it from the ground up. If you're using some pre-packaged product, you can make a website with NO technical skills or programming ability. But writing an executable program for a desktop machine, an iPhone app, or what-have-you? There aren't a lot of pre-packaged things to help you build your own custom software. So if you're technically incompetent, you can't make a Windows executable, but you COULD make a website-- you just couldn't program it.

DaveE
I'm an undeveloped genius, of course I'm going to come across as arrogant. I've lived my life so far in a manner which has hidden my abilities, and nothing has come out of it. I may as well be honest and improve my odds of attracting the attention of someone who can actually be helpful. =/ You can call me an attention whore, I don't really care. What I do know is that I deserve much more out of life that I'm getting, because I'm now willing to assert my superiority.

I already know about projecteuler. As I've said, I have a very strong tendency to focus on universal and go to specifics over time, so idk how well I would fare at many of the problems, because even though I am sure I could comprehend the problems, I wouldn't have a good working knowledge of how those problems developed. I think in terms of context and environment, not objects themselves. o_o

From pretty much everything I've seen, website development/maintenance is easier than writing stand-alone programs.
Mark44
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#20
Oct21-10, 09:44 AM
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Quote Quote by Mark44 View Post
The word chutzpah comes to mind.
Quote Quote by G037H3 View Post
I'm not a Juden. :)
Although the word is Yiddish, it is universally applicable.
Mark44
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#21
Oct21-10, 10:02 AM
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Quote Quote by G037H3 View Post
I'm an undeveloped genius
So you say, but without any evidence that I can see to back up that claim. I work in a large software firm, and am in daily contact with many developers. All of them are very intelligent, and have many years experience working with a number of programming languages. As far as I can tell, most or all of them have at least a bachelor's degree in computer science, and a fair number of them have master's degrees. With the economy in its current state, these are the people you would be competing against for developer jobs.

Quote Quote by G037H3 View Post
, of course I'm going to come across as arrogant.
I've lived my life so far in a manner which has hidden my abilities, and nothing has come out of it. I may as well be honest and improve my odds of attracting the attention of someone who can actually be helpful. =/ You can call me an attention whore, I don't really care. What I do know is that I deserve much more out of life that I'm getting, because I'm now willing to assert my superiority.
You may or may not have the potential you claim to have. Although prospective employers view potential as an asset, they place as much or more weight on the skills you already have, so until you have actually developed some programming skills, you're going to have a tough time "asserting your superiority."
davee123
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#22
Oct21-10, 10:35 AM
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Quote Quote by G037H3 View Post
idk how well I would fare at many of the problems, because even though I am sure I could comprehend the problems, I wouldn't have a good working knowledge of how those problems developed.
Yeah, but that's precisely what you need as a programmer. You have to move from the general to the specific. One typical example is sorting things. Everyone knows how to sort things in order-- but when you try breaking it down into the atomic steps (IE, the level that you'd need to instruct a computer to do the same task), it's actually more complex than people initially think. You've got to be good at breaking the task down to a level that addresses the details.

DaveE
G037H3
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#23
Oct21-10, 10:38 AM
P: 326
Quote Quote by Mark44 View Post
So you say, but without any evidence that I can see to back up that claim. I work in a large software firm, and am in daily contact with many developers. All of them are very intelligent, and have many years experience working with a number of programming languages. As far as I can tell, most or all of them have at least a bachelor's degree in computer science, and a fair number of them have master's degrees. With the economy in its current state, these are the people you would be competing against for developer jobs.



You may or may not have the potential you claim to have. Although prospective employers view potential as an asset, they place as much or more weight on the skills you already have, so until you have actually developed some programming skills, you're going to have a tough time "asserting your superiority."
I'm intelligent in a polymathic way, and I am disdainful of claims of intelligence based on one narrow field. I know I'm not likely to prove anything about myself in a conclusive fashion, and I am resigned to this.

Degreed programmers would be mid-tier, no?

As for 'asserting my superiority', I meant in general. It could be entirely possible that I fail at programming and similar technical/applied fields. I have a severe issue with perfectionism that I'm just starting to get over, and I am of the opinion that focusing on universal fields (mathematics, literature, music theory, drawing, history/statecraft) is probably better for my mental health than focusing on specific skills such as programming, because when I'm working on a specific thing, dozens of questions/hypotheticals effortlessly spring to mind, and if I don't have knowledge of the prerequisites, it's extremely disheartening and frustrating to go through that. =/
G037H3
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#24
Oct21-10, 10:39 AM
P: 326
Quote Quote by davee123 View Post
Yeah, but that's precisely what you need as a programmer. You have to move from the general to the specific. One typical example is sorting things. Everyone knows how to sort things in order-- but when you try breaking it down into the atomic steps (IE, the level that you'd need to instruct a computer to do the same task), it's actually more complex than people initially think. You've got to be good at breaking the task down to a level that addresses the details.

DaveE
I'm pretty sure I'd easily grasp general concepts, I just dislike details. ;S
davee123
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#25
Oct21-10, 10:43 AM
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Quote Quote by G037H3 View Post
Degreed programmers would be mid-tier, no?
In my experience, non-degreed programmers are very rarely scattered through middle and upper tiers, are extremely low-tier (interns), or are in companies where tiers aren't applicable-- IE "he's our technical guy".

Quote Quote by G037H3
I'm pretty sure I'd easily grasp general concepts, I just dislike details. ;S
Ahhh. Not promising for programming.

DaveE
G037H3
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#26
Oct21-10, 10:52 AM
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Quote Quote by davee123 View Post
In my experience, non-degreed programmers are very rarely scattered through middle and upper tiers, are extremely low-tier (interns), or are in companies where tiers aren't applicable-- IE "he's our technical guy".



Ahhh. Not promising for programming.

DaveE
I suppose that this would be the wrong subforum to ask for alternatives in? (I've already done so thrice but w.e)
wisvuze
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#27
Oct21-10, 12:22 PM
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python is awesome, type whatever you want out in pseudocode and you'll probably only have to rearrange a couple of words and add in some keywords here and there.. and you'll get python syntax
davee123
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#28
Oct21-10, 01:03 PM
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Quote Quote by wisvuze View Post
python is awesome, type whatever you want out in pseudocode and you'll probably only have to rearrange a couple of words and add in some keywords here and there.. and you'll get python syntax
.... Except the whitespace :)

DaveE
Mark44
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#29
Oct21-10, 01:30 PM
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Quote Quote by G037H3 View Post
I suppose that this would be the wrong subforum to ask for alternatives in? (I've already done so thrice but w.e)
Yes, we realize that you've asked about alternatives. Most of the replies here were responses to your opinion that for someone as smart as yourself, becoming expert in programming would be trivial. As already pointed out, maybe or maybe not. Some of the things you bring to the table are red flags: complete lack of experience in programming of any kind, logic, and so on, preference for general concepts rather than details, disdain for "linear" thinking, among others.

As far as alternatives, this is your life you're talking about. You know your abilities and likes and dislikes better than we do, so you are in a better position to evaluate career choices than we are. It doesn't seem to me that you have a burning desire to become a programmer - it seems more that this is an avenue that makes some money, which is not the best reason to choose a career in that field. If you decide to follow through in programming, more power to you, but you should at least be realistic about it - you are coming in as a rank novice. Being a (self-proclaimed) "genius" at literature, art, history, etc. has little bearing, in my experience, at being able to write good code.
fss
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#30
Oct21-10, 04:08 PM
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Quote Quote by G037H3 View Post
I suppose that this would be the wrong subforum to ask for alternatives in? (I've already done so thrice but w.e)
Perhaps you haven't gotten any suggestions because

a) we've realized you'd just dismiss it as being below you, and/or
b) if you were as smart as you claim, you could probably think of alternatives yourself.

???
davee123
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#31
Oct21-10, 04:32 PM
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Quote Quote by fss View Post
Perhaps you haven't gotten any suggestions because
I didn't bother because this thread is on its way to turning into a flame-fest. This kid's arrogant and inflammatory, and you're biting. There's not enough information to provide any sort of remotely useful suggestion, beyond the typical useless suggestions of "do what you love" or "do what comes naturally", or some nonsense like that.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, this thread should be over, unless you want to talk more about Python, programming qualifications in general, or something else relevant. The personal comments are just unnecessary fluff. I don't see the need to teach him humility-- at least not in this forum.

DaveE
Math Is Hard
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#32
Oct21-10, 06:09 PM
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Quote Quote by davee123 View Post
Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, this thread should be over,
Agreed. Pretty much all that can be said has been said.

..unless you want to talk more about Python, programming qualifications in general, or something else relevant.
Those sound like good topics for new threads.


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