Can All Heat Be Converted to Work in Isothermal Expansion?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether all heat can be converted to work during isothermal expansion of a gas. Participants explore the implications of the first and second laws of thermodynamics in this context, particularly focusing on the energy balance equation and the nature of ideal gases.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that during isothermal expansion, the energy balance equation leads to the conclusion that all heat supplied can be converted to work, which seems to contradict established thermodynamic principles.
  • Another participant counters that the reasoning provided is only applicable to ideal gases, which do not exist in reality.
  • A further response emphasizes that reversible processes, which are often used in theoretical discussions, also do not occur in nature, yet the second law of thermodynamics remains valid.
  • Another participant critiques the initial argument, stating that the equations presented do not demonstrate a method for converting heat entirely into work, referencing the second law of thermodynamics and the concept of entropy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the applicability of the initial reasoning to real-world scenarios, particularly concerning ideal gases and reversible processes. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on the interpretation of thermodynamic laws.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the assumption that ideal gas behavior applies, the reliance on reversible processes, and the implications of the second law of thermodynamics, which are not fully addressed in the initial argument.

Ritz_physics
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It is understood that energy supplied in the form of work can be completely converted to heat.
However energy transferred in the form of heat cannot be completely obtained from the system as work.

But, consider this case: A Q amount of heat is supplied isothermally to a gas confined in a piston-cylinder device. By the energy balance equation:
ΔU = Q - W
Since ΔU = Cv.ΔT (Cv= specific heat at constant volume, ΔT=0), ΔU = 0.
Hence we get Q= W. This means all of the heat supplied to the gas was obtained as work output from the gas during its isothermal expansion. This comes as a contradiction to the fact that heat cannot be completely converted to work.
Please clarify the doubt.
 
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Your reasoning is applicable only to ideal gases, which actually do not exist in nature.
 
Infinitum said:
Your reasoning is applicable only to ideal gases, which actually do not exist in nature.

But reversible processes also do not exist in nature, even then Kelvin-Planck statement of the second law is applicable to reversible cycles.
 
The way you wrote those equations and presented those equations doesn't prove that you have showed a way that heat can be turned into work.
All you really wrote was that if the change in potential energy is 0, then the change in heat is equal to the change in work -- according to the equation.
However, an exception was created to that equation which is now called the second law of thermodynamics. This law, in essence, states that heat cannot be changed completely into work, based on the principles of entropy.
 

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