# Homomorphisms with unknown groups

by CAF123
Tags: groups, homomorphisms, unknown
 PF Gold P: 2,305 1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known data 1)Let p,q be primes. Show that the only group homomorphism $$\phi: C_p \mapsto C_q$$ is the trivial one (i.e ## \phi (g) = e = e_H\,\forall\,g##) 2)Consider the function $$det: GL(n,k) \mapsto k^*.$$ Show that it is a group homomorphism and identify the kernel and image. 3. The attempt at a solution I cannot make much progress with either of these questions essentially because I do not know what the groups are. I don't know what ##C_p## or ##C_q## are. Any ideas? For the second one, I can at least make a start: Take A,B in GL(n,k). GL(n,k) is a group under multiplication of matrices, so det(g1 * g2) = det(AB) = (detA)(detB) from linear algebra = det(g1)* det(g2) since det(gi) ##\neq## 0 for all gi. Again, what is ##k^*##? From the homomorphism I just showed, it is probably a group under multiplication of numbers and GL(n,k) = set of invertible nxn matrices with real number entries, but I want to make sure. So, Ker (det) = {##g \in GL(n,k) \mid det(g) = e_H = 1##} = SL(n,k) Im (det) = {##h \in k^* \mid \exists g \in GL(n,k) , det(g) = h##} = ##k^* ##\## {0}##. I don't know what ##k^*## is so whether I need to exclude 0 or not, I don't know. Many thanks.
HW Helper
PF Gold
P: 3,288
 Quote by CAF123 1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known data 1)Let p,q be primes. Show that the only group homomorphism $$\phi: C_p \mapsto C_q$$ is the trivial one (i.e ## \phi (g) = e = e_H\,\forall\,g##) 2)Consider the function $$det: GL(n,k) \mapsto k^*.$$ Show that it is a group homomorphism and identify the kernel and image. 3. The attempt at a solution I cannot make much progress with either of these questions essentially because I do not know what the groups are. I don't know what ##C_p## or ##C_q## are. Any ideas?
You should check to make sure, but I assume these are cyclic groups of order ##p## and ##q##. Suppose you did have a homomorphism ##\phi : C_p \rightarrow C_q##. Think about what the kernel and image of ##\phi## can be.
 P: 1,532 Hmm for the first one, I THINK they might be modulo groups. Contradiction is a good approach to it. That is, assume that phi is not the only group homomorphism and then proceed to show that phi is indeed the only one.
HW Helper
PF Gold
P: 3,288
Homomorphisms with unknown groups

 Quote by CAF123 For the second one, I can at least make a start: Take A,B in GL(n,k). GL(n,k) is a group under multiplication of matrices, so det(g1 * g2) = det(AB) = (detA)(detB) from linear algebra = det(g1)* det(g2) since det(gi) ##\neq## 0 for all gi. Again, what is ##k^*##? From the homomorphism I just showed, it is probably a group under multiplication of numbers and GL(n,k) = set of invertible nxn matrices with real number entries, but I want to make sure. So, Ker (det) = {##g \in GL(n,k) \mid det(g) = e_H = 1##} = SL(n,k) Im (det) = {##h \in k^* \mid \exists g \in GL(n,k) , det(g) = h##} = ##k^* ##\## {0}##. I don't know what ##k^*## is so whether I need to exclude 0 or not, I don't know. Many thanks.
##k^*## means the multiplicative group of nonzero elements of the field ##k##. GL(n,k) refers to the multiplicative group of INVERTIBLE nxn matrices over the field k, i.e. the matrices with nonzero determinant. It would not be a group if you included matrices with determinant zero, because these don't have inverses.

Your kernel looks fine, and so does your image. (Note that ##k^* \setminus \{0\} = k^*##.) You may want to give an specific example to show that for any ##h \in k^*##, you can find a matrix ##A## with ##det(A) = h##.
 PF Gold P: 2,305 So assuming they are cyclic groups,I have ##Ker \phi = \left\{g^{nq}\right\}, n \in \mathbb{N}, q## the order of ##C_q## and ## Im \phi = \left\{e_H\right\}## because the element in Ker phi will give the identity. I don't know if I can say for sure if there exists more elements to Im phi. Does this help me?
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PF Gold
P: 3,288
 Quote by CAF123 So assuming they are cyclic groups,I have ##Ker \phi = \left\{g^{nq}\right\}, n \in \mathbb{N}, q## the order of ##C_q##
I'm not sure how you got this.

Instead of trying to construct the kernel explicitly, consider what its order can be. (Use Lagrange's theorem.) Do the same thing for the image. What are the possibilities?
PF Gold
P: 2,305
 Quote by jbunniii I'm not sure how you got this.
I thought I could perhaps construct an element in ##C_p## such that when it is raised to some multiple of the order of q, I would get the identity in ##C_q##.

 Instead of trying to construct the kernel explicitly, consider what its order can be. (Use Lagrange's theorem.) Do the same thing for the image. What are the possibilities?
Ker ##\phi \leq C_p\,\Rightarrow\, |C_p| = p = a |Ker \phi|\, \Rightarrow\, |Ker \phi| = p/a## so a = 1 or p meaning it's order must be 1 or p, since p is prime. Similarly, for ##Im \phi##, we have its order 1 or q.
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PF Gold
P: 3,288
 Quote by CAF123 Ker ##\phi \leq C_p\,\Rightarrow\, |C_p| = p = a |Ker \phi|\, \Rightarrow\, |Ker \phi| = p/a## so a = 1 or p meaning it's order must be 1 or p, since p is prime. Similarly, for ##Im \phi##, we have its order 1 or q.
OK, so far so good.

If ##|ker \phi| = p##, then what is ##ker \phi##, and what is ##\phi##?
PF Gold
P: 2,305
 Quote by jbunniii OK, so far so good. If ##|ker \phi| = p##, then what is ##ker \phi##, and what is ##\phi##?
Does this mean Ker ##\phi## = ##C_p## so phi sends all elements of ##C_p## to the identity in ##C_q##? So I am done if I can show that it's order can't be 1. I know that it is at least 1 since the identity in ##C_p## always maps to the identity in ##C_q##. Can I argue that another element mapping to ##e_H## is a element of the form ##g^{nq}##? I am not sure, because this element may not exist.
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PF Gold
P: 3,288
 Quote by CAF123 Does this mean Ker ##\phi## = ##C_p## so phi sends all elements of ##C_p## to the identity in ##C_q##?
Right, so ##\phi## is the trivial map, as indicated in the problem statement.

So now all we have to do is rule out the other possibility, that ##|ker \phi| = 1##. If this were true, what does it imply about the map ##\phi##? Injective, surjective, something like that?
PF Gold
P: 2,305
 Quote by jbunniii Right, so ##\phi## is the trivial map, as indicated in the problem statement. So now all we have to do is rule out the other possibility, that ##|ker \phi| = 1##. If this were true, what does it imply about the map ##\phi##? Injective, surjective, something like that?
|Ker ##\phi##| = 1 would mean that only the identity in ##C_p## maps to the identity in ##C_q##. I have proven this in another exercise that we have injectivity. I am not sure about surjectivity since all other elements map elsewhere, but we can't say for sure if they cover all of H.

But if we have injectivity, then order of g in G = order of ##\phi(g)## in H. By assumption, p and q were different and so this is a contradiction. Hence, |Ker \phi| = 1 is ruled out.
EDIT: Question should say 'p,q are different primes'
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PF Gold
P: 3,288
 Quote by CAF123 |Ker ##\phi##| = 1 would mean that only the identity in ##C_p## maps to the identity in ##C_q##. I have proven this in another exercise that we have injectivity.
Right, ##\phi## must be injective. This in turn implies that ##|im(\phi)|## must equal ##|C_p| = p##. This gives you the contradiction you need, assuming, as you pointed out, ##p \neq q##.
 EDIT: Question should say 'p,q are different primes'
Yes, good catch. Otherwise the identity map is a counterexample.
 Mentor P: 18,219 It would be an interesting exercise to see how many homomorphisms $\varphi:C_p\rightarrow C_p$ there are. Since they are all bijections except for the trivial map, we can look at the set of all bijective homomorphisms. This forms a group. It would be a good exercise to find out which group it is (answer: it will be the cyclic group on p-1 elements).
PF Gold
P: 2,305
 Quote by jbunniii Right, ##\phi## must be injective. This in turn implies that ##|im(\phi)|## must equal ##|C_p| = p##. This gives you the contradiction you need, assuming, as you pointed out, ##p \neq q##.
Is the way I gave okay as well? (about the order of g in H). Also, would I be correct in saying that we can't deduce whether phi is surjective?