Electrons you come in contact with

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the nature of contact and interaction at the subatomic level, particularly focusing on electrons, electromagnetic fields, and the concept of touch. Participants examine whether energy transfer during physical contact causes electrons to change states and emit light, and they delve into the implications of electromagnetic forces in the context of everyday interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether tapping a desk or walking causes electrons in those objects to jump orbitals and emit infrared light.
  • Another participant challenges the notion of not actually touching electrons, asking how one can feel contact with objects.
  • Some participants propose that the concepts of 'touch' and 'feel' are not well-defined for subatomic particles, suggesting that electrons interact through electromagnetic fields rather than direct contact.
  • There is a discussion about electrons behaving as both particles and waves, raising questions about how interference patterns relate to the concept of touch.
  • One participant clarifies that when touching an object, one is interacting with the electromagnetic field, and that the repulsion between electrons in different objects creates the sensation of touch.
  • Another participant emphasizes that atoms do not actually touch, but rather push against each other through electromagnetic forces, as illustrated by the example of scissors cutting without direct contact.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the idea that touch involves electromagnetic interactions rather than direct contact between electrons. However, there remains some uncertainty and debate regarding the implications of this understanding and the definitions of touch and feel at the subatomic level.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the nature of electromagnetic forces and the behavior of electrons, which may not be fully resolved. The relationship between particles and their fields, as well as the interpretation of sensory experiences, remains complex and nuanced.

Nim
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If you tap on a desk, or are walking, does that energy that is being transferred cause electrons in the desk or ground to jump oribitals and emit infrared light?

Also, I've read that electrons never touch each other, and that there is actually some space between you and everything that you think you touch. So you never actually touch any of the food you eat, or anyone you kiss, or even the floor that you're walking on. Is the relationship between electrons kind of like the relationship between magnets with opposite poles facing each other? Where the electron particle is like the magnet itself, and the electron's field is the like the magnet's field? So the electron particle itself doesn't actually touch any other electron particle, but both of their electromagnetic fields do, just like magnets don't touch each other sometimes but there magnetic fields do? So you don't actually touch anyone elses or anything elses electrons, but you do touch there electromagnetic fields with yours?
 
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About not actually touching the electrons in the food you eat and all the other objects you touch daily, how come you can feel that you are touching them?
 
The concepts of 'touch' and 'feel' just don't have a well-defined meaning for subatomic particles. Your magnet analogy is quite correct. Electrons "feel" each other not by touching, but via the electromagnetic field.

- Warren
 
It is a complicated picture, but don't forget that electrons aren't little particles whizzing round - they also act as (are?) waves. Electons acting as waves can cause interference patterns - how do you defime an interference pattern of two waves in terms of 'touch'?

Chroot's point that "The concepts of 'touch' and 'feel' just don't have a well-defined meaning for subatomic particles." is spot on!
 
Originally posted by chroot
The concepts of 'touch' and 'feel' just don't have a well-defined meaning for subatomic particles. Your magnet analogy is quite correct. Electrons "feel" each other not by touching, but via the electromagnetic field.

- Warren

So that means that when we touch for example a desk, we touch the magnetic field? [?]
 
Originally posted by Thallium
So that means that when we touch for example a desk, we touch the magnetic field? [?]
The electrons in your finger are repelled by the electrons in the desk (and vice versa). The result is a force acting on both your electrons and the desk's electrons, due to their electrical repulsion (I wouldn't involve magnetism here -- magnetism deals with charges in motion, but you only need to consider electrons sitting still to understand this). Your fingertips have little sensors in them that measure pressure (force per unit area), and transmit that information to the brain, and you percieve that you're touching the desk.

- Warren
 
Originally posted by Thallium
So that means that when we touch for example a desk, we touch the magnetic field? [?]

The electromagnetic field.

If you looked at everything you touched with a really good miscroscope, you would see a thin space between you and everything.

At this site What's in a touch, it says:

"Even standing on the floor, you are really supported by a very thin layer of electromagnetic force; no atoms of your foot actually touch atoms of the floor!"

"Don't the scissor blades have to touch what they're cutting, in order to cut?
No, they don't. Atoms can't touch, remember? They just push against each other with an electromagnetic force. That's what happens with the scissors"
 

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