The Mystery of Star Formation: Why Do Gas Clouds Collapse?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms of star formation, specifically focusing on the collapse of gas clouds. Participants explore the interplay of potential energy, kinetic energy, and density contrasts, as well as the triggers that initiate the collapse of these clouds. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects and observational examples, such as the Orion nebula.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the collapse of gas clouds begins when potential energy overcomes kinetic energy, but they express uncertainty about the specific triggers for this collapse.
  • Others argue that a shock wave or perturbation event is necessary to create a sufficient density contrast that allows gravitational forces to dominate over the energy of molecular motion.
  • A participant mentions the Orion nebula as an example of a region where star formation is occurring, possibly due to a past supernova event.
  • Another contribution discusses the early universe, suggesting that density contrasts from the time of inflation, combined with the interactions of dark matter and ordinary matter, played a role in star formation by cooling the gas and facilitating collapse.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the specific mechanisms or triggers for the collapse of gas clouds. Multiple competing views and hypotheses are presented, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of energy interactions and the role of dark matter, which may not be fully explored or defined. There are also references to historical events in the universe that are not universally agreed upon.

wolram
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stars are formed from gas clouds, these gas clouds posses
potential energy and kinematic energy, they may also exhibit
a density contrast, theory tells us that collapse of the gas
cloud starts when PE overcomes KE, but i can find no explanation
for the trigger to this collapse ,put another way, why don't the
individual molecules just jiggle away for ever?
 
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wolram said:
stars are formed from gas clouds, these gas clouds posses
potential energy and kinematic energy, they may also exhibit
a density contrast, theory tells us that collapse of the gas
cloud starts when PE overcomes KE, but i can find no explanation
for the trigger to this collapse ,put another way, why don't the
individual molecules just jiggle away for ever?
It usually takes a shock wave or some kind of "pertubation event" to cause at least a "density contrast" (higher) enough for the big G to start a matter accumulation that is stronger than the gases' energy to jiggle away. That would be for the first stars formed, since second + generation stars form from gas clouds plus a considerable amount of heavier elements, sometimes just in the form of dust and sometimes in multi-billion ton clumps of any heavy elements that might be lingering around from the death of the first generation star(s). Short version.
 
The phenomena Labguy described is going on all over the universe, but one example which pops into my head is the Orion nebula. Presumably, there was a large supernova in that vicinity several million (billion?) years ago, and now it is a hotbed for star formation.
 
wolram said:
stars are formed from gas clouds, these gas clouds posses
potential energy and kinematic energy, they may also exhibit
a density contrast, theory tells us that collapse of the gas
cloud starts when PE overcomes KE, but i can find no explanation
for the trigger to this collapse ,put another way, why don't the
individual molecules just jiggle away for ever?
Excellent question!

In addition to Labguy's and enigma's answers, wrt the very early years after matter and radiation decoupled (i.e. the time after the CMB was set free). There were density contrasts (as you say), of total matter (ordinary mass, in this case H and He, PLUS dark matter), left over from the time of inflation. Gravity ensured that, on balance, matter was attracted to regions of higher-than-surroundings density. The dark matter speeded up, passed the region peak density, and shot right on out again (dark matter doesn't collide with itself, or ordinary matter). However the H and He atoms did collide, and in so doing got 'excited' (electrons raised to higher energy levels, atoms got ionised), then 'relaxed' by emitting light (well, some of it was radio waves, IR, UV, ...). The light carried away energy, so the H and He gas 'cooled', and exited the region of peak density slower than the atoms went in. All 'on average', of course, and over-simplified (but not, I hope, too oversimplified).
 
most enlightening, for once i have an unambiguous picture of an event
that i could not fathom, thank you kind lady and gentlemen.
 

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