What is the fabric of the universe?


by petm1
Tags: fabric, universe
petm1
petm1 is offline
#1
Jan18-08, 09:51 PM
petm1's Avatar
P: 366
I just wanted to know what people think of the question "What is the fabric of the universe?" I only see two choices either time or space. I know that gravity is something that warps space, which means it must warp the fabric of space, or our second choice time, and I would think that any theory of gravity must at the very least contain a quantum theory of time, because imho gravity is a function of time not space. What do you think?
Phys.Org News Partner Science news on Phys.org
SensaBubble: It's a bubble, but not as we know it (w/ video)
The hemihelix: Scientists discover a new shape using rubber bands (w/ video)
Microbes provide insights into evolution of human language
A.T.
A.T. is offline
#2
Jan19-08, 12:27 AM
P: 3,554
Quote Quote by petm1 View Post
I just wanted to know what people think of the question "What is the fabric of the universe?" I only see two choices either time or space.
Why not both?
Quote Quote by petm1 View Post
I know that gravity is something that warps space, ...
... and time!

See links in this post.
mikehibbert
mikehibbert is offline
#3
Feb16-08, 07:03 PM
P: 37
The fabric of the universe is indeed BOTH space and time.

We call it space-time.

And then gravity warps space-time.

petm1
petm1 is offline
#4
Feb17-08, 12:57 PM
petm1's Avatar
P: 366

What is the fabric of the universe?


I started this thread thinking that the fabric was either time, space, or space-time. Maybe I should have started it as a poll and listed "other" as a choice, because after thinking of my own question I would have to change my answer to light as being the fabric, with the photon as the thread and matter the ball of yarn. That would make space the loom, time the the room, and you can believe in any weaver that you want. Sorry if this seems to simple but it made me smile when I thought of it.
marcus
marcus is offline
#5
Feb17-08, 05:27 PM
Astronomy
Sci Advisor
PF Gold
marcus's Avatar
P: 22,809
The best discussion of this issue----where we are at present on it-----that I know of is in the survey paper by Renate Loll called
Quantum Gravity on your Desktop


time and space are largescale perceptions that emerge from some more fundamental processes at microscopic level. Because of Heisenberg Uncertainty, the smaller scale you look the more chaotic spacetime geometry is likely to be. It may not even have a well defined dimensionality down near or below planck scale. Concepts like length area volume angle may be infected with indeterminacy just as in ordinary quantum mechanics the position and momentum of a particle are not completely determined.

Smooth space and regular time may be illusions which appear at a macroscopic scale, emerging from a microscopic reality which is not so smooth and regular.

Quantum gravity teaches us to expect this. Wheeler (a great physicist of the last century) used to refer to the "spacetime foam".

Among presentday researchers, I think Loll's group is as advanced as any. They are not saying what is there but they are running some pretty good simulations of small universes. have some pretty reasonable conjectures.

Google "renate loll" and see if you can find that recent article at her website.
asder45
asder45 is offline
#6
Aug28-11, 05:44 AM
P: 1
gravity is an extra dimension, above time and the three dimensions of space
kcajrenreb
kcajrenreb is offline
#7
Aug28-11, 10:50 AM
P: 45
No time is an extra dimension, not gravity. Gravity is a force or field, and is not a dimension.
ibysaiyan
ibysaiyan is offline
#8
Aug29-11, 05:28 PM
P: 437
If gravity were to be a dimension then wouldn't we experience fluctuation of gravity in different reference frames?!
-ibysaiyan
kcajrenreb
kcajrenreb is offline
#9
Aug29-11, 08:13 PM
P: 45
Yes. We could go on and on on why gravity is not a dimension.
petm1
petm1 is offline
#10
Aug30-11, 11:24 AM
petm1's Avatar
P: 366
Gravity makes a good fabric for the universe without it we would never have found evidence of black holes, you've got to love general relativity.
Drakkith
Drakkith is offline
#11
Aug30-11, 05:46 PM
PF Gold
Drakkith's Avatar
P: 11,057
Quote Quote by petm1 View Post
Gravity makes a good fabric for the universe without it we would never have found evidence of black holes, you've got to love general relativity.
I don't think gravity can be considered the "fabric" of the universe. More like the fat lady sitting on the fabric having a picnic.
kcajrenreb
kcajrenreb is offline
#12
Aug30-11, 09:57 PM
P: 45
Hah, that made me laugh quite hard. Well, it doesn't have to be a fat lady, basically its anything sitting on the fabric, of any size. But I understand what you meant by that post.
Chronos
Chronos is offline
#13
Aug30-11, 11:49 PM
Sci Advisor
PF Gold
Chronos's Avatar
P: 9,185
Quote Quote by Drakkith View Post
I don't think gravity can be considered the "fabric" of the universe. More like the fat lady sitting on the fabric having a picnic.
Cite some references. I totally disagree.
r73826779
r73826779 is offline
#14
Jan9-12, 02:09 PM
P: 1
Gravity is much better described as a force upon said "fabric" rather than a constituent of the "fabric" itself. Gravity has an effect upon space-time which would explain why gravity has been shown to travel in excess of light-speed. just as a pull on a non-stretchable object wrapped around the equator would show instantaneous movement on both ends. Gravitational propagation would occur as a dependency of the amount of "Stretch" present in space-time itself.
Drakkith
Drakkith is offline
#15
Jan9-12, 04:00 PM
PF Gold
Drakkith's Avatar
P: 11,057
Gravity does not travel FTL. It propagates at c. An object wrapped around the equator, when pulled, would react at the speed that sound propagates through the material.
Cosmo Novice
Cosmo Novice is offline
#16
Jan11-12, 10:20 AM
P: 366
Quote Quote by Chronos View Post
Cite some references. I totally disagree.
Interesting this Chronos. Gravity must have propogated through all of spacetime. Could geometry or curvature be the fabric of reality, that seems reasonable to me, everything is anchored geometrically to the Universe. Curvature is king! :)

Not a personal theory just an idea.

Has made me think though, geometry and therefore gravity and curvature are present everywhere, even if curvature is 0 it can still be explained mathematically.

All really interesting.
phinds
phinds is offline
#17
Jan11-12, 10:41 AM
PF Gold
phinds's Avatar
P: 5,720
Quote Quote by r73826779 View Post
Gravity is much better described as a force upon said "fabric" rather than a constituent of the "fabric" itself. Gravity has an effect upon space-time which would explain why gravity has been shown to travel in excess of light-speed. just as a pull on a non-stretchable object wrapped around the equator would show instantaneous movement on both ends. Gravitational propagation would occur as a dependency of the amount of "Stretch" present in space-time itself.
Both of the bolded statements are nonsense, as Drakkith has already pointed out (although more politely than me). You really should read up on basic physics before you make such pronouncements on a physics forum.
Drakkith
Drakkith is offline
#18
Jan11-12, 04:43 PM
PF Gold
Drakkith's Avatar
P: 11,057
Quote Quote by Cosmo Novice View Post
Interesting this Chronos. Gravity must have propogated through all of spacetime. Could geometry or curvature be the fabric of reality, that seems reasonable to me, everything is anchored geometrically to the Universe. Curvature is king! :)
Depends on what you mean by "Fabric of reality".


Register to reply

Related Discussions
What IS the Spacetime fabric? General Astronomy 25
Is this the fabric of the universe? Special & General Relativity 1
From 'the fabric of the cosmos' Special & General Relativity 5
Space-time fabric General Astronomy 1
Does the fabric of space itself cause friction? General Physics 7