Derivation of nth fibonacci term

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the nth term of the Fibonacci sequence, addressing both the formula for integer n and the implications for non-integer n. Participants explore the mathematical derivation, numerical efficiency, and the significance of the golden ratio in the context of the Fibonacci sequence.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the Fibonacci sequence is defined by F0= 1, F1= 1, and Fn+2= Fn+1+ Fn, and propose a method to solve the recursion using a characteristic equation.
  • One participant presents a derived formula for F_n involving the golden ratio, suggesting that it yields integer values for non-negative integers n.
  • Another participant questions the validity of the formula for n=1, proposing a different expression that includes a correction for a missing factor.
  • Some participants discuss the computational efficiency of using the derived formula versus the recursive definition, noting that raising irrational numbers to high powers may be numerically expensive.
  • There is a mention of the golden ratio's appearance in the derived formula, prompting questions about its significance in relation to the Fibonacci sequence compared to other recursive formulas.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the derived formula, with some agreeing on the need for corrections while others challenge its validity. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of the formula for non-integer n and the efficiency of different computational methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential issues with arithmetic errors and the dependence on how the Fibonacci series is defined, which may affect the validity of the derived expressions.

soandos
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i know that there is a formula to find the nth term.
two questions:

what does mean for non-integer n (as the recurrence relation breaks down i think),
and how was this derived
 
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The Fibonacci sequence is defined by F0= 1, F1= 1, Fn+2= Fn+1+ Fn.

A standard method of trying to solve such recursion formulas is to try something of the form Fn= an. Then, of course, Fn+1= an+1 and Fn+2= an+2 so the equation becomes an+2= an+1+ an. If we divide the entire equation by an we arrive at a2= a+ 1 or the quadratic equation a2- a- 1= 0. Solving that by the quadratic formula,
a= \frac{1\pm\sqrt{5}}{2}
That tells us that
F_n= \left(\frac{1+ \sqrt{5}}{2}\right)^n
and
F_n= \left(\frac{1-\sqrt{5}}{2}\right)^n
satisfy that equation. Since this is a linear equation, any solution must be of the form
F_n= A\left(\frac{1+ \sqrt{5}}{2}\right)^n+ B\left(\frac{1- \sqrt{5}}{2}\right)^n
for some numbers A and B.
In particular, if n= 0
F_0= A+ B= 1[/itex]<br /> and, if n= 1<br /> F_n= A\left(\frac{1+ \sqrt{5}}{2}\right)+ B\left(\frac{1- \sqrt{5}}{2}\right)= 1<br /> Solving those two equations for A and B, we get (assuming I have done the arithmetic correctly!) <br /> A= \frac{1+\sqrt{5}}{2\sqrt{5}}<br /> and<br /> B= \frac{1-\sqrt{5}}{2\sqrt{5}}<br /> <br /> Putting all of that together, we have<br /> F_n= \frac{1+\sqrt{5}}{2\sqrt{5}}\left(\frac{1+ \sqrt{5}}{2}\right)^n+ \frac{1-\sqrt{5}}{2\sqrt{5}}\left(\frac{1- \sqrt{5}}{2}\right)^n<br /> <br /> It is remarkable that this gives integer values for n any non-negative integer!<br /> <br /> I don&#039;t know that it &quot;means&quot; anything for non-integer n.
 
Thank you!
 
I wonder if using formula shown by HallsofIvy is faster than using definition, as raising irrational numbers to high powers with high accuracy is numerically much more expensive then integer addition.
 
I don't see how that formula works. It does not work for n=1. I take this, as well as I can write it, to be the standard form:

((\frac{1+\sqrt5}{2}})^n-({\frac{1-\sqrt5}{2})^n})*{\frac{1}{\sqrt5}}
 
Last edited:
Halls,
I think you lost a minus sign on the B term should read:

F_n= \frac{1+\sqrt{5}}{2\sqrt{5}}\left(\frac{1+ \sqrt{5}}{2}\right)^n- \frac{1-\sqrt{5}}{2\sqrt{5}}\left(\frac{1- \sqrt{5}}{2}\right)^n

Edit may as well finish it.

This can be written as:

F_n = \left(\left(\frac {1+ \sqrt{5}} 2\right)^{n+1} - \left (\frac {1- \sqrt{5}} 2\right)^{n+1} \right)* \frac 1 {\sqrt{5}}


Edit again:
Robert, you seem to have lost a factor, your exponent should be n+1, it does indeed work with that correction.
 
Last edited:
Dang! If I could only do arithmetic!
 
HallsofIvy said:
Dang! If I could only do arithmetic!

:smile: How well I know the feeling.
 
Integral, Robert, you seem to have lost a factor, your exponent should be n+1, it does indeed work with that correction.

It depends upon how we start the series. Wolfram says, F(1) = F(2) = 1.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/FibonacciNumber.html.
 
  • #10
Borek: I wonder if using formula shown by HallsofIvy is faster than using definition, as raising irrational numbers to high powers with high accuracy is numerically much more expensive then integer addition.

One thing that happens here is that the second term goes to zero. Even using this term: (-\frac{1-\sqrt5}{2})^3*(\frac{1}{\sqrt5}) = \succ.11 (Approximately .11)

So that we only need to use the closest interger to the first term.
 
  • #11
It doesn't change much. It is still about log(n) multiplications to calculate nth power. In the end we have n integer additions vs log(n) real multiplications. Or something like that.
 
  • #12
HallsofIvy said:
\frac{1\plus\sqrt{5}}{2}

Hey, whoa, it's the golden ratio! Is the way that the golden ratio shows up in your derived formula something that is something special about the Fibonacci sequence compared to other recursive formulas?
 

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