Is there such thing as selflessness?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of selflessness, particularly in the context of altruistic behavior and parental sacrifices. Participants explore whether true selflessness exists or if actions perceived as selfless are ultimately motivated by personal satisfaction or instinctual drives.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that actions taken for others may stem from a personal sense of satisfaction, questioning the existence of true selflessness.
  • Others propose that selflessness might be theoretically possible, particularly in the context of parental instincts, where sacrifices are made without direct benefit to oneself.
  • There is a suggestion that mental illness may lead to actions that appear selfless, as they may not involve rational consideration of self-interest.
  • One participant challenges the notion that all parental sacrifices are selfless, suggesting that they may be driven by an instinctual desire for personal contentment.
  • Another viewpoint emphasizes that compulsive actions do not necessarily involve deriving pleasure, indicating that some parents may sacrifice for their children despite experiencing unhappiness.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of selflessness, with no consensus reached. Some believe that selflessness is inherently tied to personal satisfaction, while others maintain that true selflessness can exist, particularly in parental contexts.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight various assumptions regarding instinctual behavior, the role of mental illness, and the motivations behind altruistic actions, which remain unresolved within the discussion.

Namloh2000
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Mother Terhesa, bless her soul. Though selfless? I think not.

If I care so much for someone that I would do anything for them, is it not because caring for them made ME feel good?
 
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Selfless is a bit of a strong word. It must be difficult to perform an action without taking into any consideration the effect it will have on yourself, but I am sure it is at least possible in theory. I suspect you would most commonly find this in people with children. I'm sure there must be some instinctual mechanism by which a parent makes sacrifices that are of absolutely no benefit to themselves for their children. They may derive pleasure from seeing their children succeed later in life, but they have no guarantee that they will be around to see it.

You might also want to take into account cases of mental illness. Some of the actions of a mentally ill individual are likely motivated by no discernable reasoning process; that is, they do not take into account the effects on themselves or on others. Their actions are simply compelled by their illnesses.
 
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If I care so much for someone that I would do anything for them, is it not because caring for them made ME feel good?

What?? People are gaining happiness from helping people? How dare them! Selfish good for nuthins!
:biggrin:
 
loseyourname said:
I suspect you would most commonly find this in people with children. I'm sure there must be some instinctual mechanism by which a parent makes sacrifices that are of absolutely no benefit to themselves for their children.

Does this not imply a desire to sacrifice for children? Things taste good for a reason: in attaining pleasure from caloric substances we are able to sustain our bodies, in the fact that we will turn to food when hungry (as opposed to inedible substances). I am sure there is an instictual component in parents that would make them do anything for their children. If some action or behavior is a function of a desire to do so, then is not a parent "sacrificing" merely to close some circut in their brain that would make them feel content, happier, better?

If one was mentally ill, I suppose that selfless acts are possible (in theory). I figure only one lacking qualia is completely capable of selflessness.
 
Namloh2000 said:
Im sure there is an instictual component in parents that would make them do anything for their children. If some action or behavior is a function of a desire to do so, then is not a parent "sacrificing" merely to close some circut in their brain that would make them feel content, happier, better?

There is nothing inherent in compulsive action that necessitates the deriving of pleasure from the action. The desire need not be conscious. Some parents seem to be made quite miserable by their children, yet they continue to sacrifice for them.
 

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