How can I solve this linear equation with an integrating factor?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Math Is Hard
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Linear
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a linear differential equation using an integrating factor. Participants explore the steps taken to rearrange the equation and apply integration techniques, particularly focusing on the challenges encountered during integration.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the equation 1 + xy = xy' and rearranges it to y' - y = 1/x, applying an integrating factor of e^{-x}.
  • They note that integrating leads to (e^{-x}y) = ∫(e^{-x}/x) dx, but they encounter difficulties with the integral.
  • Another participant points out that the integral of e^{-x}/x does not have an analytic form and diverges at x=0.
  • A later reply questions whether the solution can be expressed in terms of the integral despite its divergence, suggesting a form y = e^{x}∫(e^{-x}/x) dx as a potential solution.
  • One participant clarifies that the lack of an analytic form for an integral does not necessarily imply divergence, using examples of other integrals to illustrate this point.
  • Another participant confirms that it is acceptable to leave an integral as part of a solution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to handle the integral of e^{-x}/x, with some suggesting it cannot be solved due to divergence, while others propose it can still be expressed in a certain form. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to the integral.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions about the convergence of integrals and the conditions under which certain integrals can be expressed in solutions. The discussion does not resolve these mathematical nuances.

Math Is Hard
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
Messages
4,663
Reaction score
36
My teacher gave us this problem in class and then when she went to show us how to solve, she got stuck too!

[tex]1+xy = xy'[/tex]

after some rearranging and dividing we have

[tex]y' - y = 1/x[/tex]

we used an integrating factor of [tex]e^ {-x}[/tex]

and got the result of [tex](e^ {-x}y)' = e^ {-x}/x[/tex]

integrating gives [tex](e^ {-x}y) = {\int e^ {-x}/x \dx}[/tex]

and that's about where we got stuck. Integration by parts just took us in a loop.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Math Is Hard said:
My teacher gave us this problem in class and then when she went to show us how to solve, she got stuck too!

[tex]1+xy = xy'[/tex]

after some rearranging and dividing we have

[tex]y' - y = 1/x[/tex]

we used an integrating factor of [tex]e^ {-x}[/tex]

and got the result of [tex](e^ {-x}y)' = e^ {-x}/x[/tex]

integrating gives [tex](e^ {-x}y) = {\int e^ {-x}/x \dx}[/tex]

and that's about where we got stuck. Integration by parts just took us in a loop.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

I think you/she got stuck there because the integral of [tex]{e^ {-x}/x \dx}[/tex] has no analytic form - it diverges at x=0
 
Last edited:
Thanks, Gokul.

so as far as the solution for y , do you just throw up your hands and say "OK, divergent, can't be solved since the integral won't converge" or can you express y as something like this and call that the solution?

[tex]y = {e^ {x}\int e^ {-x}/x \dx}[/tex]
 
Gokul43201 said:
I think you/she got stuck there because the integral of [tex]{e^ {-x}/x \dx}[/tex] has no analytic form - it diverges at x=0

You are correct about both of those statements, but I think I should clarify by saying that one has nothing to do with the other. The integral of exp(-x2) has no analytic form, and it doesn't diverge anywhere. Conversely, the integral of tan(x) does have an analytic form, and it diverges at (2n+1)π/2, for any integer n.

Math Is Hard,

Yes, you can leave an integral as part of a solution.
 
Thanks, Tom.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K