Ideas on what this transformation is doing?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties and effects of a specific transformation represented by a matrix. Participants explore its implications in terms of vector manipulation, row operations, and its classification as a permutation matrix or a rotation matrix. The scope includes theoretical aspects of linear algebra and matrix transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the nature of the transformation represented by the matrix and suggests it may be doing something beyond simple transformation.
  • Another participant encourages testing the transformation on a specific vector to observe the result.
  • A participant describes the matrix as a "fundamental matrix" created through row operations, specifically noting that it swaps the last two rows of the identity matrix.
  • Another participant asserts that every invertible matrix can be derived from the identity matrix through Gaussian elimination and identifies the matrix as a permutation matrix that permutes basis elements.
  • One participant challenges the interpretation of the matrix's effect, stating it does more than just swap the second and third numbers, suggesting it also permutes the entire vector.
  • A different perspective is offered, claiming the matrix represents a rotation of the coordinates around the line where x=y=z.
  • Another participant acknowledges the previous confusion and clarifies that the matrix transforms the vector (1,2,3) into (3,1,2).
  • One participant explains how the columns of the matrix correspond to the transformation of the basis vectors e1, e2, and e3.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of the matrix's effects, with some asserting it performs a permutation while others suggest it represents a rotation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact nature of the transformation.

Contextual Notes

There are varying interpretations of the matrix's function, and participants reference different mathematical concepts such as row operations, permutation matrices, and rotations without reaching consensus on a singular characterization.

graphic7
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I'm curious to what this transformation is exactly doing. I'm lead to believe by the context of the question in my text, that this transformation is simply doing something other than "transforming". What exactly, I'm unsure.

[tex]\left(\begin{array}{ccc}0 & 0 & 1\\1 & 0 & 0\\0 & 1 & 0 \end{array}\right)[/tex]
 
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Try it out.

Do the transformation on a vector (1,2,3), and see what happens to the result.
 
This is an example of what is sometimes called a "fundamental matrix"- a matrix created by apply a "row operation" to the identity matrix. "Row operations" are the operations used in "Gaussian Elimination": swap two rows, multiply every number in a row by a number, add a multiple of one row to another.

Applying a "fundamental matrix" to a vector simply does the same row operation as used to create the matrix.
[tex]\left(\begin{array}{ccc}0 & 0 & 1\\1 & 0 & 0\\0 & 1 & 0 \end{array}\right)[/tex]

is created from the identity matrix by swapping the last two rows. Applying it to a vector swaps the second and third numbers.

As enigma suggests, try it on (1, 2, 3) and see what happens.
 
Every invertible matirx is obtainable from the identity by gaussian elimination.

This particular matrix is a permutation matrix (it permutes the basis elements) which is perhaps the extra structure they are getting at.
 
I'm just nitpicking here, but the given matrix does more than swap the 2nd and 3rd numbers. Seems like you confused it with this matrix:

[tex]\left(\begin{array}{ccc}1 & 0 & 0\\0 & 0 & 1\\0 & 1 & 0 \end{array}\right)[/tex]
 
the matrix rotates [tex]x,y,z[/tex] into [tex]z,x,y[/tex], or simply a rotation about the line [tex]x=y=z[/tex]. Try what enigma says. We solid state physics types recognize this as one of the generators of the [tex]O_{h}[/tex] group amonst others...
 
Muzza said:
I'm just nitpicking here, but the given matrix does more than swap the 2nd and 3rd numbers. Seems like you confused it with this matrix:

[tex]\left(\begin{array}{ccc}1 & 0 & 0\\0 & 0 & 1\\0 & 1 & 0 \end{array}\right)[/tex]


You're right. I need to get my eyes checked!

The given vector permutes the 3 numbers changing (1,2,3) into (3,1,2).
 
look. a matrix is composed as follows: the first column is what happens to e1 = (1,0,0), the second column is what happens to e2 = (0,1,0), and the third column is what happens to e3 = (0,0,1).

So this matrx sends e1 to e2, e2 to e3, and ...?
 

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