Change in relativistic momentum

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of force as the rate of change of relativistic momentum, exploring its mathematical formulation and implications for particles in relativistic contexts. Participants examine the notation and definitions involved in expressing this relationship, including the distinction between average and instantaneous force.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that force can be expressed as the rate of change of relativistic momentum, using a specific formula involving initial and final velocities.
  • Others argue that the expression should involve taking the limit as the time interval approaches zero to define instantaneous force correctly.
  • A participant points out that the mass should not be subscripted with a zero, as it is invariant.
  • Some participants suggest that writing the differential equation in terms of momentum rather than velocity simplifies the equations.
  • There is clarification that the expression provided represents average force, while instantaneous force is defined as the derivative of momentum with respect to time.
  • One participant emphasizes the distinction between ordinary force and four-vector force in the context of relativistic physics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definition of force as the rate of change of momentum, but there are multiple competing views regarding the notation, the treatment of mass, and the formulation of the equations. The discussion remains unresolved on the best approach to express these concepts.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the treatment of mass and the definitions of force in different contexts (ordinary vs. four-vector force). The discussion also highlights the need for clarity in notation and the implications of using limits in calculus.

kurious
Messages
633
Reaction score
0
Is it alright to say that force = rate of change of relativistic momentum

F = [ m0 v2 / (1 - v2^2/c^2)^1/2 - m0 v1/(1 - v1^2/c^2)^1/2 )] / (t2 - t1)

and can this relation be used to get sensible results for particles?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
kurious said:
Is it alright to say that force = rate of change of relativistic momentum

F = [ m0 v2 / (1 - v2^2/c^2)^1/2 - m0 v1/(1 - v1^2/c^2)^1/2 )] / (t2 - t1)

and can this relation be used to get sensible results for particles?
Thats close to ordinary force f. To be precise ordinary force f involves the limit of that as t2-t1 becomes infinitesimal dt in a calculus limit. Also, you shouldn't subscript the mass with a zero as it is invariant.
 
DW is right, your notation is wrond. You must let t2-t1 approach 0, it must be alimit.
Here is the wau you want to write it:

[tex]F = \frac {d(\frac{mv}{\sqrt{1-v^2 / c^2}})}{dt}[/tex]
 
Yes, but in general, you gain nothing in writing the differential equation in terms of velocity. Just leave it in momentum; equations are far simpler.
 
kurious said:
Is it alright to say that force = rate of change of relativistic momentum..
Yes. Force is defined as

[tex]\bold F = \frac{d\bold p}{dt}[/tex]
F = [ m0 v2 / (1 - v2^2/c^2)^1/2 - m0 v1/(1 - v1^2/c^2)^1/2 )] / (t2 - t1)

and can this relation be used to get sensible results for particles?
That is the average force. The instantaneous force is F = dp/dt.

Pete
 
pmb_phy said:
Yes. Force is defined as

[tex]\bold F = \frac{d\bold p}{dt}[/tex]
That is the average force. The instantaneous force is F = dp/dt.

Pete
Just to be clear to you, in light of the notation having been used here for a while, it is an expression for ordinary force f, not the four-vector force F.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 131 ·
5
Replies
131
Views
13K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
3K