Can Spin Transformations Link Gravity and Electromagnetism?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential relationship between spin transformations and the unification of gravity and electromagnetism. Participants explore theoretical implications, laboratory detection methods, and the nature of quantum field theories (QFTs) in the context of these transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that if a spin 2 particle (graviton) could transform into two spin 1 particles, gravity could mimic the electric force, raising questions about laboratory detection of such transformations.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of conservation laws (energy, baryon number, lepton number, isospin) in interactions, suggesting that these laws complicate the proposed transformations.
  • A different viewpoint asserts that forces do not mix initially and that renormalization does not allow for mixing, leading to a conclusion that the proposed transformations are not feasible.
  • Participants reference Paul Dirac's assertion that a correct theory should not require renormalization, indicating skepticism about the validity of certain QFTs.
  • Concerns are raised about the belief in finding a theory that works at arbitrary energy levels, with some participants suggesting that such beliefs border on religious faith.
  • One participant expresses frustration over the challenges of solving path integrals directly, suggesting that a master equation might exist but remains elusive.
  • Another participant acknowledges a claim from a book by Zee regarding the complexity of computing non-trivial path integrals, indicating that this remains a significant challenge in theoretical physics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with some agreeing on the limitations of current QFTs and the challenges of unifying forces, while others propose speculative ideas about spin transformations. No consensus is reached on the feasibility of these transformations or the implications for gravity and electromagnetism.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on various conservation laws, unresolved mathematical steps regarding path integrals, and differing interpretations of the implications of renormalization in QFTs.

Rothiemurchus
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The graviton is postulated to be spin 2.
But if a spin 2 became 2 x spin 1 sometimes then
the force of gravity could become the electric force.
And similarly 2 x spin 1 could become 1 x spin 2 sometimes.
How would the effects of such transformations be detected in
the laboratory?
The force of gravity between two masses would be larger than predicted
by relativity theory wouldn't it because there would be more spin 2 around than expected?
 
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This is an easy picture. There are many other conservation laws that have to be respected when interactions occur. eg energy conservation, conservation of baryonnumber and lepton number, conservation of isospin etc...

regards
marlon
 
Initially forces do not mix together, by definition. Then renormalisation includes all the fluctuations you propose. And finally renormalized interaction do not mix together either. So basically : no.
 
Paul Dirac said a theory that is right should not need to be renormalised.
 
I agree with him. That can't be a QFT.
 
Be careful : believing we will ultimately find a theory that works at arbitrary energy is a religion. Believing Nature is not chaos is a religion too, but much less crazy.
 
humanino said:
I agree with him. That can't be a QFT.

It could be if we could just solve the damn path integral directly, or figure out a way to borel resum it.

In a sense, we might already have the master equation (with suitable caveats). We just don't know what to do with it.

Then again, that's probably not the full story either, depending on who you talk too.
 
Yes right, thanks Haelfix for the precision ! Zee in his (not-too-high-level-)book claimed the statement I just repeated, in the introduction to renormalization chapter, but he also indicated earlier in the book that computing non-trivial path integrals could be considered as one of the "holy-graal"
 

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