Can anything be reduced down to a single atom?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of reductionism in the context of separating and isolating substances at the molecular and atomic levels. Participants explore whether a liquid can be reduced to a single atom, the processes involved in separation versus reduction, and the implications of phase transformations and quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if a liquid can be reduced to a single atom or if it can only be divided into a finite number of atoms, suggesting a distinction between separation and reductionism.
  • Another participant seeks to clarify the phases involved in the process of reduction, asking whether the transition from liquid to gas or solid has fixed laws governing it.
  • There is a query about the necessity of smashing two atoms during the separation process for further examination, raising questions about limits in singular measurements.
  • Participants discuss whether certain processes, like sending a photon into a beam splitter, should be classified as separation or reductionism.
  • Questions are raised about limits in phase transformations and whether entropy restricts transitions between states of matter.
  • There is an inquiry into whether single protons and neutrons can be classified as solid, liquid, or gas phase components.
  • Participants explore the relationship between entropy and phase, as well as whether relativity is phase reliant.
  • There is a discussion about whether quantum mechanics should be viewed as reductionism or separation.
  • Questions are posed about the effects of beam splitters on inter-phase correlations and the potential for entangled photons to exist in different phase environments.
  • Participants inquire if quark confinement is related to the phase of matter and whether the wave-function of the universe correlates with quark confinement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints, and multiple competing views remain regarding the definitions and implications of separation versus reductionism, as well as the nature of phase transformations and their relationship to quantum mechanics and entropy.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference previous discussions and essays on reductionism, indicating that the topic has been explored in depth before. There are mentions of specific papers that may provide additional context, but no consensus is reached on the fundamental questions posed.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying physics, chemistry, or philosophy of science, particularly in relation to concepts of reductionism, phase transitions, and quantum mechanics.

Wave's_Hand_Particle
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Can a Liquid, say a litre devided in half and half again etc, be reduced down to a single atom?..or would the process only reduce to a finite measure..say two atoms?

There is a follow up, but for now I want some yes or no answers.
 
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Wave's_Hand_Particle said:
Can a Liquid, say a litre devided in half and half again etc, be reduced down to a single atom?..or would the process only reduce to a finite measure..say two atoms?

There is a follow up, but for now I want some yes or no answers.

Wave's_Hand_Particle said:
Can a Liquid, say a litre devided in half and half again etc, be reduced down to a single atom?..or would the process only reduce to a finite measure..say two atoms?

There is a follow up, but for now I want some yes or no answers.

Ok a little to complicated?

I have a flask containing a liquid, I have two other empty flasks, that I empty the liquid into, so I divide liquid into two flasks containing equal 'parts', thus completing STAGE-ONE.

I now take the two flasks of liquids, and pour each into another set of empty flasks, repeating as identical the first stage process, thus completing STAGE-TWO.

I complete all stages until I have arrived to a point wherby I have a vast number of flasks, each with a single molecule of liquid.

1) This is 'SEPARATION' rather than reductionism.

I now want to progress to REDUCE a single molecule into its base components, if I choose any of the separate molecules, this will not have any different effect of my ability to reduce and record data.

2) What phase are I going to?.. LIQUID to a GAS or LIQUID to SOLID?..and is there a correlated function that is fixed by a law, for any further reduction?..what is the bog-standard process needed for breaking/separating a single molecule into fundamental ATOMIC components?..without adding or taking away any component needed for a precise measurement to be attained.

Now all seems pretty basic, but I want to clarify the processes of Separation as opposed to Reductionism, where is the line drawn? specifically do I allways need to smash TWO atoms from the process of separation for a further examination, if so then the process of Separation attains a limit fir any process that involves Singular Measurements?

Example:
3) A photon is sent into a beam 'splitter' is this process Separation or Reductionism?

4)Is there a limit for PHASE transformations?..can there be some directions one cannot obvious interject..ie from Solids to Liquid to Gas's in a way that Entropy does not allow to occur?

5) Are single Protons/Neutrons classes as Solids , Liquids or Gas phase components

6)Is Entropy, Phase dependent?

7)Is Relativity Phase reliant?

8)Is Quantum Mechanics reductionism or separation?

9)Do beam splitters induce inter-phase correlations?..can an entangled photon be sent into two different Phase enviroments a Solid and Liquid?

10)Is Quark Confinement related/consequence, to the phase of matter?

11)Is the wave-function of the Universe correlated to Quark Confinement?
 
Basic Question, How does one Isolate one self from a system, and STILL, receive information? what are the paramiters needed, are they contained by QM or GR.

This is sort of a trick question, and its relevence is contained within another thread ;)
 
I will be tacky and point out that I have addressed this issue of "reductionism" several times. This includes a rather tedious essay in my journal addressing the idea of reductionism and the possible fallacy of "The Theory of Everything". There are a few very important references there, especially the one pertaining to why phenomenon such as superconductivity cannot be looked at the way you are exactly doing here.

Zz.
 
Thanks, a link to your journal, or maybe on PF?.. I presume this is so, and will read your take on this.

Cool, I read some of your journal, I take it the 20th-9 part is very relevant.

I will enjoy a further reading of your journal in its entirety, thanks for actually taking the time to put your opinions,(precise knowledge) for everyones benefit.
 
Last edited:
Wave's_Hand_Particle said:
Thanks, a link to your journal, or maybe on PF?.. I presume this is so, and will read your take on this.

Cool, I read some of your journal, I take it the 20th-9 part is very relevant.

I will enjoy a further reading of your journal in its entirety, thanks for actually taking the time to put your opinions,(precise knowledge) for everyones benefit.

Is the probability of me separating the #First# amount in stage one, equivalent, equal in probability as in the final stage?..put another way is the chance of me seperating a TWO part molocule into TWO flasks viable?..can a Single Atom be In Isolation!
 

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