Quadratic Equation Straight Line

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding how to find the vertex of a quadratic equation and how to transform a straight line graph horizontally without altering its vertical position. Participants explore methods for determining the vertex and the implications of shifting straight lines on their intercepts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks how to find the vertex of the quadratic equation y=3x²+4x+7 by inspection.
  • Another participant suggests completing the square to find the vertex, arriving at the coordinates (-2/3, 17/3) and explains the process in detail.
  • A different approach using calculus is introduced, where the derivative is set to zero to find the extremum, leading to the same x-coordinate for the vertex.
  • Participants discuss the relationship between the vertex and the y-intercept, with one questioning whether the y-coordinate of the vertex (17/3) is simply the y-intercept.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the definition of the y-intercept, which is the value of y when x=0, leading to a value of 7 for the given quadratic equation.
  • Regarding the transformation of straight lines, one participant inquires whether moving a line left or right affects the y-intercept, to which another participant confirms that it does not, as the slope remains constant while the intercepts change.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the implications of the vertex's y-coordinate and its relationship to the y-intercept. Participants present differing views on the transformation of straight lines and their intercepts, indicating ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

Some mathematical steps and assumptions in the discussions are not fully resolved, particularly regarding the implications of shifting lines and the definitions of intercepts.

roger
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Hi,

Please Can You Help Me To Understand How To Find The Vertex Of A Quadratic Equation (x,y Coordinates) Just By Looking At The Equation ?

Eg What Is The Vertex Of Y=3x^2+4x+7 ?


__________________________________________________


Also, How Do I Transform A Straight Line Graph Left Or Right On The x Axis Without Moving The Line Up/down Along The Y ?


Thanx


Roger
 
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Complete the square.

If y= 3x2+4x+ 7, rewrite it as y= 3(x2+ (4/3)x)+ 7
A "perfect square" is of the form (x+ a)2= x2+ ax+ a2. Compare that to x2+ (4/3)x. The coefficient of x is 4/3. 2a= 4/3 if a= 2/3 and, in that case, a2= 4/9. If we add 4/9 then x2+ (4/3)x+ 4/9= (x+ 2/3)2, a perfect square.

Of course, we can't JUST add 4/9, that would change the value. We can, however both add and subtract 4/9:

y= 3(x2+ (4/3)x+ 4/9- 4/9)+ 7 and now take the "-4/9" out of the parentheses:
= 3(x2+ (4/3)x+ 4/9)- 4/3+ 7
= 3(x+ 2/3)2+ 17/3

If x= -2/3, then x+ 2/3= 0 so y= 17/3. If x is ANY OTHER number, x+ 2/3 is NOT 0 so the square is positive and y is 17/3 PLUS some number: larger than 17/3.

The lowest point on the parabola, the vertex, is (-2/3, 17/3).

To "transform a straight line left or right on the x-axis", in other words, translate left or right, ADD OR SUBTRACT SOMETHING FROM x.

If the equation of the line is y= 5x+ 3, then y= 5(x- 2)+ 3 = 5x- 10+ 3= 5x- 7 has graph a line parallel to y= 5x+ 3 but shifted right 2 places: y= 3 in 5x+ 3 when x= 0 but in y= 5x- 7 when x= 2.

The graph of any function, y= f(x), is shifted to the right a places is x is replaced by x-a: y= f(x-a).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
HallsofIvy said:
Complete the square.

If y= 3x2+4x+ 7, rewrite it as y= 3(x2+ (4/3)x)+ 7
A "perfect square" is of the form (x+ a)2= x2+ ax+ a2. Compare that to x2+ (4/3)x. The coefficient of x is 4/3. 2a= 4/3 if a= 2/3 and, in that case, a2= 4/9. If we add 4/9 then x2+ (4/3)x+ 4/9= (x+ 2/3)2, a perfect square.

Of course, we can't JUST add 4/9, that would change the value. We can, however both add and subtract 4/9:

y= 3(x2+ (4/3)x+ 4/9- 4/9)+ 7 and now take the "-4/9" out of the parentheses:
= 3(x2+ (4/3)x+ 4/9)- 4/3+ 7
= 3(x+ 2/3)2+ 17/3

If x= -2/3, then x+ 2/3= 0 so y= 17/3. If x is ANY OTHER number, x+ 2/3 is NOT 0 so the square is positive and y is 17/3 PLUS some number: larger than 17/3.

The lowest point on the parabola, the vertex, is (-2/3, 17/3).

To "transform a straight line left or right on the x-axis", in other words, translate left or right, ADD OR SUBTRACT SOMETHING FROM x.

If the equation of the line is y= 5x+ 3, then y= 5(x- 2)+ 3 = 5x- 10+ 3= 5x- 7 has graph a line parallel to y= 5x+ 3 but shifted right 2 places: y= 3 in 5x+ 3 when x= 0 but in y= 5x- 7 when x= 2.

The graph of any function, y= f(x), is shifted to the right a places is x is replaced by x-a: y= f(x-a).


thanx for the help.

please can you go over finding the vertex..


I thought the 17/3 bit is simply the y intercept ?



Also for a straight line graph, is that to say you can't move the line left or right withought affecting the y intercept ?

roger
 
Here's a calculus-based approach:

y= 3x2+4x+ 7
has its extremum when dy/dx=0

so, 0=(dy/dx)at extremum=6xat extremum+4

thus, xat extremum=-2/3
and yat extremum=3(-2/3)2+4(-2/3)+7

Here's a variant, inspired by kinematics:

y=(1/2)at2+v0t+y0
v=at+v0

0=v at the maximum height. So, tat extremum=-v0/a.

Thus, think of the original equation as
y=(1/2) 6x2+4x+ 7
so, xat extremum=-(4)/(6).
 
y=ax²+bx+c
xextremum=-b/2a

Proof:
dy/dx=2ax+b
At the minima and maxima points of the curve, dy/dx=0 => 2ax+b=0 => x=-b/2a

This doesn't work all the time though.
 
Ah, yes, of course.
The x-coordinate of the vertex of y=ax2+bx+c is -b/2a,
which can be interpreted as the average of the roots of "0=ax2+bx+c".
 
roger said:
thanx for the help.

please can you go over finding the vertex..


I thought the 17/3 bit is simply the y intercept ?
No, the orginal equation was y= 3x2+ 4x+ 7= 0. The y intercept is, by definition, the y coordinate of the point where the graph crosses the y-axis. Since every point on the y-axis has x-coordinate 0, the y intercept is
y= 3(0)2+ 4(0)+ 7= 7.



Also for a straight line graph, is that to say you can't move the line left or right withought affecting the y intercept ?

roger

That's exactly what it says. The line y= x+ 1 has y intercept 1. If fact, since it has slope 1, the distance from the x intercept to the origin is exactly the same as the distance from the origin to the y intercept: 1. If I move the line parallel to itself, say to the left 2 spaces, it still has slope 1 (that depends only on the angle) so distance from the x intercept to the origin must still be the same as the distance from the origin to the y intercept.
Moving to the left 2 spaces the x intercept is now (-3,0) so the y intercept is (0,3).
Translating a line to the left or right keeps the slope the same, not the intercepts.
 

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