Register to reply

Do Light Waves Have Amplitude?

by peter.ell
Tags: amplitude, light, waves
Share this thread:
peter.ell
#1
Sep16-11, 05:47 PM
P: 43
Waves in general have three properties: frequency (related to wavelength), amplitude, and speed. When referring to light as a wave, it's wavelength and speed are always referenced but never its amplitude, and I was wondering if light has a fixed amplitude for all wavelengths or if it changes.

Sound waves, for example, get louder in two cases: when there's more of them (multiple speakers) or when the amplitude of the sound waves is increased (more volume). Obviously having more light waves (multiple light sources) will result in increased brightness, but can the amplitude of a light wave change as well?

Since I've never heard the amplitude of a light wave referred to, plus the fact that higher frequency (shorter wavelength) light is referred to as more energetic, I was wondering if perhaps the intensity of light is only related to how much of it there is, and maybe the amplitude of a light wave is set. After all, how would a light wave of a given wavelength increase its amplitude? If an electron falls a greater distance, the light emitted won't be more intense, it will actually have a higher frequency, right?

Thanks for clearing this up for me!
Phys.Org News Partner Physics news on Phys.org
UCI team is first to capture motion of single molecule in real time
And so they beat on, flagella against the cantilever
Tandem microwave destroys hazmat, disinfects
Drakkith
#2
Sep16-11, 06:03 PM
Mentor
Drakkith's Avatar
P: 12,005
I think I remember reading that the amplitude was planks constant or something related to it. Intensity of light refers to the number of photons and the energy of each is based on its frequency.
sweet springs
#3
Sep16-11, 06:05 PM
sweet springs's Avatar
P: 454
Hi, peter.ell

Brightness of light corresponds to amplitude. Amplitude of light from two light bulbs are larger than that from one light bulb. Amplitude of light from each bulb is additive.

Regards

Drakkith
#4
Sep16-11, 06:07 PM
Mentor
Drakkith's Avatar
P: 12,005
Do Light Waves Have Amplitude?

Quote Quote by sweet springs View Post
Hi, peter.ell

Brightness of light corresponds to amplitude.

Regrds
Brightness does not correspond to the amplitude of each photon. Instead it corresponds to the number of photons.
sweet springs
#5
Sep16-11, 06:12 PM
sweet springs's Avatar
P: 454
Quote Quote by Drakkith View Post
Brightness does not correspond to the amplitude of each photon. Instead it corresponds to the number of photons.
...And number of photons also corresponds to amplitude of light, doesn't it?

Regards.
Drakkith
#6
Sep16-11, 06:21 PM
Mentor
Drakkith's Avatar
P: 12,005
Quote Quote by sweet springs View Post
...And number of photons also corresponds to amplitude of light, doesn't it?

Regards.
If by amplitude you mean how bright something like a light bulb is sure. However when speaking of individual photons, which is what I think the OP is asking about, that is not correct.
JaWiB
#7
Sep16-11, 06:29 PM
P: 289
I don't think you can define "amplitude" for a single photon. In the classical picture, light is an electromagnetic wave and the amplitude of the electric/magnetic fields is the property you talk about. In the quantum picture, light is made up of photons and the number of photons describe the amplitude. That's my understanding.
Drakkith
#8
Sep16-11, 06:42 PM
Mentor
Drakkith's Avatar
P: 12,005
Quote Quote by JaWiB View Post
I don't think you can define "amplitude" for a single photon. In the classical picture, light is an electromagnetic wave and the amplitude of the electric/magnetic fields is the property you talk about. In the quantum picture, light is made up of photons and the number of photons describe the amplitude. That's my understanding.
Yes, I agree that we generally use amplitude to mean the number of photons. However in terms of a single photon I am unsure whether we can define amplitude or not. I swear I remember reading something about planks constant having something to do with the amplitude though.
HallsofIvy
#9
Sep16-11, 06:55 PM
Math
Emeritus
Sci Advisor
Thanks
PF Gold
P: 39,682
Where did "photons" come into this? The original post was about the amplitude of light waves, not photons.
Drakkith
#10
Sep16-11, 07:01 PM
Mentor
Drakkith's Avatar
P: 12,005
Quote Quote by HallsofIvy View Post
Where did "photons" come into this? The original post was about the amplitude of light waves, not photons.
After all, how would a light wave of a given wavelength increase its amplitude? If an electron falls a greater distance, the light emitted won't be more intense, it will actually have a higher frequency, right?
This plus the context of the OP's post suggests he is talking about a photon, not a large collection of photons. Unless I am missing some sort of difference between "light wave" and "photon".
sweet springs
#11
Sep16-11, 07:29 PM
sweet springs's Avatar
P: 454
Hi, I write down energy density of monochoromatic light of frequency ν as

1/2 (ED + BH) = ε0 E^2 = N h ν

where E is electric field, D is density of electric flux, B is density of magnetic flux, H is magnetic field intensity, ε0 is electric permittivity in vacuum, h is Planck constant and N is number density of photon.
Amplitude of light, E, undertakes superposition or interference of lights from various sources.
Lights of frequency v1 and ν2 can have same amplitude E or same energy density when N1 h ν1 = N2 h ν2, higher the frequency of light, fewer the number density of photons. However, quality differs, for example, hundreds of green color photons entertain us but one X-ray photon of same energy may harm our cell.

Regards.
Drakkith
#12
Sep16-11, 08:01 PM
Mentor
Drakkith's Avatar
P: 12,005
Of course, but can you define amplitude for a single wave or photon as the OP is asking?
sweet springs
#13
Sep16-11, 08:08 PM
sweet springs's Avatar
P: 454
How about N = 1, say single photon in unit volume, in the formula 1/2 (ED + BH) = ε0 E^2 = N h ν?
Drakkith
#14
Sep16-11, 08:38 PM
Mentor
Drakkith's Avatar
P: 12,005
Quote Quote by sweet springs View Post
How about N = 1, say single photon in unit volume, in the formula 1/2 (ED + BH) = ε0 E^2 = N h ν?
But what is the amplitude referring to in this equation? The amount of energy found in N photons?
sweet springs
#15
Sep16-11, 09:17 PM
sweet springs's Avatar
P: 454
Quote Quote by Drakkith View Post
But what is the amplitude referring to in this equation? The amount of energy found in N photons?
E in this formula is amplitude of light, say square root of h ν / ε0 for single photon in unit volume.

Regards
Drakkith
#16
Sep17-11, 12:05 AM
Mentor
Drakkith's Avatar
P: 12,005
Quote Quote by sweet springs View Post
E in this formula is amplitude of light, say square root of h ν / ε0 for single photon in unit volume.

Regards
Amplitude of light meaning that it is the energy of N photons?
Naty1
#17
Sep17-11, 10:57 AM
P: 5,632
Photons exhibit wave particle duality, right?? What doesn't?? ..so they DO have amplitude and wavelength...and experience wave inteference and polarization, for example.

Einstein's photon model accounted for the frequency dependence of light's energy, E = hv.
I n a sound wave, extra energy is louder, in light, it's a higher frequency....say X-ray instead of visible.

I was wondering if perhaps the intensity of light is only related to how much of it there is, and maybe the amplitude of a light wave is set.
See here for an illustration of an electromagnetic wave: note the amplitude is given by the amplitude of the electric (E) and magnetic (B) field vectors....amplitudes vary.

"intensity" is one thing to the human eye, another to objective instruments. Maybe lumens is most closely related to "brightness" or "intensity"....I'm not sure that's the BEST term.
Philip Wood
#18
Sep17-11, 01:05 PM
PF Gold
P: 963
When we have large numbers of photons, the photon stream behaves as an e-m wave, in which energy is spread out over broad wavefronts. A natural meaning to give to amplitude is the maximum value, Emax of the electric field strength, as the wave passes a point. Alternatively, it could be the maximum value, Bmax of the magnetic field strength. One would know which one from the units. In any case, they are related very simply:
Emax = cBmax.

The wave intensity, i.e. the wave energy per unit area per second passing through an area normal to the waves' direction of travel is [itex]\frac{1}{2}c\epsilon_{0} E_{max}^{2}[/itex]. So, assuming monochromatic waves of frequency f, for which the photon energy is hf, the photon flux density (i.e. the number of photons per unit area per second passing through an area normal to the waves' direction of travel) is [itex]\frac{1}{2}\frac{c\epsilon_{0}}{hf} E_{max}^{2}[/itex]. So the photon flux density is proportional to Emax2, i.e. to amplitude2.


Register to reply

Related Discussions
Resultant Amplitude of 2 Waves Introductory Physics Homework 1
Does expansion of spacetime also stretch amplitude of light waves? Cosmology 3
Three light waves combine at a point find resultant amplitude and phase angle Introductory Physics Homework 4
Waves and amplitude Introductory Physics Homework 0
Amplitude of EM waves in vacuum ~ General Physics 2