What Are Phonons and How Do They Influence Physics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of phonons, their definition, and their role in physics, particularly in the context of quantum mechanics and solid-state physics. Participants explore various aspects of phonons, including their interpretation, energy states, and propagation, while addressing misconceptions and clarifying technical details.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that phonons do not introduce new physics, suggesting they are merely an alternative description of energy states in oscillators.
  • Others argue that phonons represent quantum mechanical interpretations of energy values, with a phonon being an energy quantum of oscillators, similar to how photons represent energy quanta of electromagnetic radiation.
  • There is a discussion about the interpretation of phonon counts, with some stating that 5 phonons can correspond to various configurations of oscillating atoms, while others clarify that this is not a direct equivalence and emphasize the importance of normal modes of oscillation.
  • Participants note that phonon propagation involves more than just energy exchange, including considerations of momentum and spin, and challenge the notion that phonons simply propagate like classical waves.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of phonons and their implications in physics. There is no consensus on whether phonons represent a fundamentally new framework or merely an alternative description, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the equivalence of phonon counts and their propagation characteristics.

Contextual Notes

Some statements made by participants rely on specific interpretations of quantum field theory (QFT) and may depend on the definitions of phonons and oscillators. The discussion highlights the complexity of phonon behavior and the nuances in their theoretical descriptions.

secret2
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I have never encountered phonon before, so I am going to make a list of statements, and please be generous to point out any mistakes. Thank you.

1. There is no new physics behind the idea of phonons: it is just an alternative way of doing things.

2. When one says that there are, say, 5 phonons, it can be one of the following case: one atom oscillating with 5(h bar)w, 2 atoms with a sum of 5(h bar)w, and so on.

3. Propagation of phonons means nothing more than the exchange of energy between oscillators.
 
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secret2 said:
I have never encountered phonon before, so I am going to make a list of statements, and please be generous to point out any mistakes. Thank you.

1. There is no new physics behind the idea of phonons: it is just an alternative way of doing things.
What do you mean here ? Phonons are the QM-interpretation of energy-values. The atoms in a lattice can vibrate and this motion is expressed in terms of oscillators. A phonon is nothing else then an energy-quantum of such oscillators, just like the photon is an energy-quantum of EM-radiation (eg light)

2. When one says that there are, say, 5 phonons, it can be one of the following case: one atom oscillating with 5(h bar)w, 2 atoms with a sum of 5(h bar)w, and so on.

yes indeed. The phonon is ONE energyquantum [tex]E_{n} = (n + \frac{1}{2}) \hbar \omega[/tex]
But beware that two harmonic oscillators will have an influence on each other's energy-levels. This is due to their mutual interaction.

3. Propagation of phonons means nothing more than the exchange of energy between oscillators.

Yes, when a phonon is absorbed by an oscillator, this oscillator is in a higher energy-state. to lower the energy, just emit a phonon.

regards
marlon
 
secret2 said:
2. When one says that there are, say, 5 phonons, it can be one of the following case: one atom oscillating with 5(h bar)w, 2 atoms with a sum of 5(h bar)w, and so on.

3. Propagation of phonons means nothing more than the exchange of energy between oscillators.
Phonons are not single atoms oscillating. Phonons are excitations of the normal modes of a crystal, which in principle is of infinite size (no surfaces). Some phonons have very long wavelengths - in a truly infinite crystal there are phonons with frequencies in the audio range and wavelength of many meters.

Propagation should the same as propagation of a classical wave on a string.
 
secret2 said:
I have never encountered phonon before, so I am going to make a list of statements, and please be generous to point out any mistakes. Thank you.

1. There is no new physics behind the idea of phonons: it is just an alternative way of doing things.

Nope. The "other" way of doing this does not contain the same set of information. Once one invokes phonons, then all (and I mean ALL) the rules of QFT comes in. This includes the self-energy terms that reveal themselves via the perturbative expansion. You do not get, for example, the strong and weak coupling description of superconductivity using the "other" description.

2. When one says that there are, say, 5 phonons, it can be one of the following case: one atom oscillating with 5(h bar)w, 2 atoms with a sum of 5(h bar)w, and so on.

[tex]5 \hbar \omega[/tex] is NOT 5 phonons. If you must equate the two different pictures, phonons are the normal modes of oscillations.

3. Propagation of phonons means nothing more than the exchange of energy between oscillators.

You left out momentum and spin (even though phonons have spin of zero). It's hard to know what you mean by "propagation" here. Phonons (and any other QFT particles) are exchange particles that carry energy, momentum and spin. They don't really "propagate". They are the replacement of the classical field. However, their formalism (QFT) provides MORE fundamental information than the classical field formalism. In that sense, they are not necessarily simply an "alternative" description.

Zz.
 

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