Can you find a non-recursive formula for y(n) with 4th order coefficients?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter flying2000
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Formula
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a non-recursive formula for the sequence y(n) defined by specific initial conditions and a recursive relationship involving 4th order coefficients. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and exploration of potential solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a recursive definition for y(n) along with initial conditions for specific values of n.
  • Another participant suggests writing down the first few terms to guess a formula and proving it inductively, or working backwards from y(n) to find a relationship.
  • A later reply indicates that finding a 4th order solution may be challenging but proposes that the general solution could take the form At^n, where t satisfies a specific polynomial equation derived from the recursive relationship.
  • There is mention of needing to solve for four solutions based on the derived equation and applying the initial conditions to find the constants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing approaches to finding a solution, with no consensus on a specific method or formula. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact non-recursive formula for y(n).

Contextual Notes

Participants have noted challenges in identifying a clear relationship from the initial terms and the recursive definition, indicating potential limitations in the approach taken.

flying2000
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
How to get a non-recursive formula for y(n):

y(n)=1 (n=1 or 2)
y(n)=0 (n=3 or 4)
y(n)=(y(n-4) + y(n-3))/2


Any hints apprecaited..
 
Physics news on Phys.org
write down the first few terms, guess an answer and prove it inductively, that'd be my guess.

or work backwards from y(n) repeatedly subs'ing in and see what works.
 
I have already wrote down previous 20 items, still can't find the relationship

I have already wrote down previous 20 items, still can't find the relationship


matt grime said:
write down the first few terms, guess an answer and prove it inductively, that'd be my guess.

or work backwards from y(n) repeatedly subs'ing in and see what works.
 
Ok, I suppose a 4th order is going a little too far to ask you to spot it...

however, it is linear and homogeneous, so the general solution is of the form At^n for some constants t and A, t satisfies

t^n = t^{n-4}+t^{n-3}

or

t^4=1+t,

solve that, to get 4 solutions, and then apply the 4 initial conditions.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 65 ·
3
Replies
65
Views
10K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K