Solving Non-Separable ODEs: A Beginner's Guide to Differential Equations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a specific type of ordinary differential equation (ODE) that is presented as non-separable. Participants explore the nature of the equation, its homogeneity, and potential substitution methods for solving it. The scope includes theoretical understanding and problem-solving techniques related to differential equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about whether the given ODE, (y^2 - x^2)dy + 2xydx = 0, is separable and considers possible substitutions.
  • Another participant suggests that the equation can be viewed as homogeneous and proposes solving it by separating components of the equation.
  • A different participant confirms the homogeneity of the equation and describes a method to test for it by substituting ax and ay for x and y, respectively.
  • One participant explains the reasoning behind the substitution y = vx and how it leads to the derivative y' = v + v'x using the product rule.
  • Another participant provides a general test for separability of ODEs, indicating that F(x,y) must be expressible as f(x)g(y).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the homogeneity of the equation and the validity of the substitution method, but there is no consensus on the initial classification of the ODE as separable. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to solve the equation.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the textbook does not cover homogeneity until later sections, which raises questions about the appropriateness of the problem presented. There are also references to specific forms and methods that may depend on the definitions and context provided in the textbook.

sporff
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I'm almost finished my calculus book (I'm self-teaching) and in the last 2 chapters it's giving a brief intro to differential equations. the second section is for "separable" and I'm stuck on this one halfway through the exercises. It doesn't seem to be separable by any means I can see unless there's some kind of substitution (which he's never mentioned anywhere yet).

my book gives:
[tex](y^2 - x^2)dy + 2xydx = 0[/tex]

the closest I can seem to get it is (1):
[tex]\frac{x^2-y^2}{2xy} = \frac{dx}{dy}[/tex] *or* [tex]\frac{2xy}{x^2-y^2} = \frac{dy}{dx}[/tex]

or (2):
[tex]\frac{1}{2}(\frac{x}{y}-\frac{y}{x}) = \frac{dx}{dy}[/tex]

or even (3):
[tex]y dy - \frac{x^2}{y}dy + 2xdx = 0[/tex]


Now... I have the Schaum's "3000 solved problems in calculus" and in it there's a problem which simplifies into form (1) I have up there and goes on to say it's a "homogeneous" so substitute in y=vx.
Is my problem even a separable one? Excuse my DE newbieness.
 
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This would make more sense in a broader view in which one would recognize it as homogeneous.
you could solve
y^2dy+xydx=0
and
-x^2dy+xydx=0
then realize the sum of the two solutions is the solution of the original problem.
or you could realize
d(x/y) and d(y/x) should be involved, then try to obtain the differential equation in terms of them.
 
Last edited:
yes, it's homogenous, one way to test is to substitute ax and ay for every x and y, and see if the constants cancel out to give you the original form. In pertinence to the "schaum's" example you mentioned...


[tex]y=vx,~y'=v+v'x[/tex]

[tex]\frac{2xy}{x^2-y^2} = \frac{dy}{dx}[/tex]

[tex]\frac{2x^{2}v}{x^{2}(1-v^{2})} = \frac{dv}{dx}x+v[/tex]

now try separating
 
thanks guys. very strange that my book would do this. he doesn't go over homogeneous for another couple of sections but he goes and gives me a problem on it. at least now that I know what it is I can go about figuring it out.

but anyway...
what is the reasoning behind the substitution of y=vx? and how do you get y' = v + v'x from that?
 
The fact that function is "homogeneous" in x and y really means that it can be written as a function of y/x. For example, [tex]\frac{2xy}{x^2-y^2}[/tex] is homogeneous because it has the same "power" of the variables (2) in both numerator and denominator. If you divide both numerator and denominator by x2, you get [tex]\frac{2\frac{y}{x}}{1- (\frac{y}{x})^2}[/tex]. Let v=y/x and that becomes [tex]\frac{2v}{1-v^2}[/tex].
Taking v= y/x is the same as y= vx. And, of course, if y= vx then y'= v(x)'+ v'x by the product rule. And that is y'= v+ v'x since (x)'= 1.
 
ahh. thank you HallsofIvy. it makes sense to me now.
 
Just in case, there is a test for separability for any ODE in the form dy/dx = F(x,y). In other words, can we write F(x,y) as f(x)g(y). You can google this test.
 

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