Setting Up Integrals: Step-by-Step Examples

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the challenges of setting up area and volume integrals in the context of gravitational fields and forces, particularly for problems involving cylinders and disks. Participants seek resources and examples that illustrate the process of establishing these integrals, as well as clarifying the relationships between different variables involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests recommendations for websites or texts that provide step-by-step examples of setting up integrals related to gravitational fields.
  • Another participant shares several links to resources that focus on integral techniques but notes that they may not specifically address the setup for the participant's described situations.
  • A participant expresses frustration with their mechanics text, indicating that it jumps from basic relations to complex triple integrals without sufficient explanation.
  • One participant describes a specific homework problem involving the gravitational field vector due to a homogeneous cylinder and outlines their thought process, including the use of symmetry and the integration of mass elements.
  • The same participant questions the absence of a squared term in their notes and struggles with expressing variables in terms of one another, particularly the relationship between the radius of the cylinder and the radial vector.
  • A later reply indicates that the participant has resolved their confusion regarding the setup, attributing the earlier misunderstanding to a simple error and expressing a need for more practice and worked examples.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need for more resources and examples to aid in understanding the setup of integrals, but there is no consensus on specific materials or methods that effectively address the issue.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in existing texts and resources, particularly regarding the clarity of the transition from basic concepts to complex integral setups. There are unresolved questions about variable relationships and integration techniques.

Barley
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Can anyone recommend a website, or text, where there are step by step examples of setting up area and volume integrals where your looking for forces. I need to be able to do set ups for situations similar to the following :find the gravitational field vector on surface point of a cylinder or find or gravational force on a point mass from a disk.

Really get confused with this-- especially when it comes to putting the pieces in terms of each other?
Seems my calc. book just has me evalulate integrals and there's a big leap from my freshman/softmore physics text, where I hardly did any calc., to my junior level text.


Thanks.
 
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Peliminary inspection of these sites shows a lot about techniques for solving integrals but not a lot on setting one up for the situations I tried to describe. Maybe what I'm looking for is a good mechanics text. The one I have has examples in it that I can't follow, not because my integration is rusty, but because my text starts with a simple enough relation and the next line is the result of a triple integration.

Example of Hw problem:

Calculate the gravitational field vector due to a homogeneous cylinder at exterior points on the axis of the cylinder.
Only because the problem states that the result is to be found by computing the force directly; start with g = F/m

g = -GMrhat/ r^2


I can get that symmetry gives us that there is only force in z direction, and choosing a reference point on the z axis and pick an arbitrary point on the surface of mass dm- where dm = rhodV . The point dm connects to the (0, 0, z) reference point with a radial line and makes an angle with the z axis that we can put into the integral as the magnitude of dgz, so what goes into the integral is cos(angle)--where cos(angle) =(zo-z)^2/((sqrt r^2 + (zo -z)^2)).

Now, there's rhodV = dm = rhodr rdangle dz

Somehow, I have in my notes the final integral, skipping the 3 limits of integration resloves itself into, bringing rho outside, rho///drdangledz(zo -z)/(((zo -z)^2 + r^2))^3/2)). Even if there's an error in my notes, I'm stuck on the set up.

I can't figure out why the top term is no longer squared. Looking back at the original formula; gz = -Grho(integral)cosangle/r^2.
I've drawn a triangle on my picture connecting the z axis across to the surface point, to the radial line, and back to the point zo. Now, I'm confused-- I've labled the radius of the cylinder R and the radial vector from reference point to zo is labled little r. To evaluate the integrand I need to get r in terms of R ? Just stuck!

See, what I need are some examples with some intermediate steps in setting up these types of problems.

Thanks
 
Solved it

ok it was simple and I apologize to anyone who tried to read my post. The (zo -z)^2 term never belonged there- Just lack of sleep r in terms of R easy.
No biggie-- hard part, I know is evaluating the result of the set up but looks like integration by parts--
Still, need practice, and worked out examples would be of a lot of help.

Reccomendations, advice, appreciated. :biggrin:
 

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