Understanding Metric Tensors in Riemannian Spaces

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the understanding of metric tensors in Riemannian spaces, specifically focusing on the components of the metric tensor in a 2D Riemannian space and the relationship between Christoffel symbols for different metrics. Participants also explore the implications of a falling frame in an inertial frame and the derivation of the corresponding metric.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants confirm the components of the metric tensor for the given 2D Riemannian space as g_{11} = 1, g_{12} = 0, g_{21} = 0, g_{22} = x^2.
  • There is a question regarding the interpretation of e in the context of the second metric, with some suggesting it is the exponential function while others question its role as a pseudo tensor.
  • Participants discuss the formula for Christoffel symbols and how they relate to the metrics, with one participant providing a detailed expression for the symbols based on the metric tensor.
  • There is a correction regarding the exponential factor in the expression for the Christoffel symbols, with a suggestion that it should be e^{-z} instead of e^{z}.
  • One participant raises a question about deriving the metric for a frame falling along the -z-axis with constant acceleration, expressing uncertainty about how to obtain g_{ij} from the given definition.
  • Another participant asserts that the derivatives of z with respect to certain coordinates will be zero, leading to a discussion about the implications of treating z as a function of multiple coordinates.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the components of the metric tensor but express differing views on the interpretation of the exponential factor and the implications of treating z as a function of multiple coordinates. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the derivation of the metric in the falling frame.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the treatment of z as a function of all four coordinates may affect the derivatives involved in the calculations, highlighting the importance of understanding the dependencies in the context of the discussion.

yukcream
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Q1 If given a 2D Riemannian space, ds^2 = dx^2 + x^2dy^2, do the componets of the metric tensor are these:
g_11 = 1, g_12 = 0
g_21 = o, g_22 = x^2 ?

In addition, I got a question from my lecturer:
Q2. 2 metrics, defined in a Riemannian space, are given by ds^2 = g_ijdx^idy^j
and ds'^2 = g'_ij dx^idy^j = e^z g_ijdx^idy^j , respectively, where z is a function of the coordinates x^i.
Find the relation between the Chritoffel symbols corresponding to the 2 two metrics~~~
I have no ideal how to solve it and what is e here? treat it as a function or is it represents the persudo tensor?

Can anyone help me~~

yukyuk
 
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yukcream said:
Q1 If given a 2D Riemannian space, [itex]ds^2 = dx^2 + x^2dy^2[/itex], do the componets of the metric tensor are these:
[tex] g_{11} = 1, g_{12} = 0[/tex]
[tex] g_{21} = 0, g_{22} = x^2[/tex]
Yes, this is correct.

yukcream said:
In addition, I got a question from my lecturer:
Q2. 2 metrics, defined in a Riemannian space, are given by [itex]ds^2 = g_{ij}dx^idy^j[/itex]
and [itex]ds'^2 = g'_{ij} dx^idy^j = e^z g_{ij}dx^idy^j[/itex], respectively, where z is a function of the coordinates [itex]x^i[/itex].
Find the relation between the Chritoffel symbols corresponding to the 2 two metrics~~~
I have no ideal how to solve it and what is e here? treat it as a function or is it represents the persudo tensor?
Can anyone help me~~
I assume you mean: [itex]ds^2 = g_{ij}dx^idx^j[/itex] and [itex]ds'^2 = g'_{ij}dx^idx^j = e^z g_{ij}dx^idx^j[/itex]. (Note that I have replaced references to [itex]y^j[/itex] with references to [itex]x^j[/itex].)

The [itex]e^z[/itex] here is the exponential function. Note that its partial derivatives are (,i is shorthand for [itex]\partial / \partial x^i[/itex]):

[itex]e^z{}_{,i} = z_{,i}e^z[/itex]

The formula for the Christoffel symbol in terms of the metric tensor is:

[itex]\Gamma^m{}_{ij} = \frac{1}{2}g^{km}(g_{ik,j} + g_{jk,i} - g_{ij,k})[/itex]

This should be enough to get you started. If you still have trouble, post again.
 
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To jimmysnyder:

Hope I can understand what you mean~~
I work out the steps, am I correct?

[itex]\Gamma^m{}_{ij} = \frac{1}{2}g^{km} (-g_{ij,k}+g_{jk,i}+g_{ki,j})[/itex]
[itex]\Gamma'^m{}_{ij} = \frac{1}{2}g'^{km} (-g'_{ij,k}+g'_{jk,i}+g'_{ki,j})[/itex]
[itex]\Gamma'^m{}_{ij} = \frac{1}{2}e^{z(i)}g^{km} (-e^{z(i)}g_{ij,k}+e^{z(i)}g_{jk,i}+e^{z(i)}g_{ki,j}[/itex]
[itex]\Gamma'^m{}_{ij} = \frac{1}{2}e^{z(i)}g^km{}[-e^{z(i)}g_{ij,k}+z(i)_{,i}e^{z(i)}g_{jk,i}+e^{z(i)}g_{jk,i}+e^{z(i)}g_{ki,j}][/itex]
[itex]\Gamma'^m{}_{ij} = e^{2z(i)}[\Gamma^m{}_{ij} + \frac{1}{2}g^{km}z(i)_{,i}g_{jk,i}][/itex]

Thx so much and you are so smart that you can correct my mistake as what i want to write is dx^j not dy^j~

yukyuk
 
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yukcream said:
[itex]\Gamma^m{}_{ij} = \frac{1}{2}g^{km} (-g_{ij,k}+g_{jk,i}+g_{ki,j})[/itex]
[itex]\Gamma'^m{}_{ij} = \frac{1}{2}g'^{km} (-g'_{ij,k}+g'_{jk,i}+g'_{ki,j})[/itex]
So far, so good.

yukcream said:
[itex]\Gamma'^m{}_{ij} = \frac{1}{2}e^{z(i)}g^{km} (-e^{z(i)}g_{ij,k}+e^{z(i)}g_{jk,i}+e^{z(i)}g_{ki,j}[/itex]
The exponential factor that goes with [itex]g^{km}[/itex] should be [itex]e^{-z}[/itex], because you want [itex]g'^{np}g'_{pm} = \delta^n{}_m[/itex]. Also in order to make things more clear, I would remove the parameter from z and add parentheses as follows:
[itex]\Gamma'^m{}_{ij} = \frac{1}{2}e^{-z}g^{km} (-(e^{z}g_{ij})_{,k} + (e^{z}g_{jk})_{,i} + (e^{z}g_{ki})_{,j})[/itex]

The next steps are not correct, but if you start from the equation I have given you, I think you can get the rest.
 
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Once more question is :

Given a fame S' which is falling along -z-axis with constant acceleration in an inertial frame S. Find a form of metric in the S' frame, assume in Newtonian approximation of the absolute time (t=t').

I just know a definition that
a = sqrt(g_ij dx^idx^j) but how to get the g_ij??

yukyuk
 
jimmysnyder said:
So far, so good.
The exponential factor that goes with [itex]g^{km}[/itex] should be [itex]e^{-z}[/itex]. Also in order to make things more clear, I would remove the parameter from z and add parentheses as follows:
[itex]\Gamma'^m{}_{ij} = \frac{1}{2}e^{-z}g^{km} (-(e^{z}g_{ij})_{,k} + (e^{z}g_{jk})_{,i} + (e^{z}g_{ki})_{,j})[/itex]
The next steps are not correct, but if you start from the equation I have given you, I think you can get the rest.

I think my answer is correct~~
as z is only a function of coordinate x^i , derative of z wrt x^j & x^k will be zero ~ right? Do I make the mistake there?
 
yukcream said:
I think my answer is correct~~
as z is only a function of coordinate x^i , derative of z wrt x^j & x^k will be zero ~ right? Do I make the mistake there?
Yes, you have made a mistake. In this case, i is an index that takes all 4 values, 0, 1, 2, and 3. In your original post you have written "z is a function of the coordinates x^i". Note coordinates, not coordinate. That means it is a function of all 4 coordinates and partials must be taken with respect to each of them. The letters k and j are just different index letters that also take on the 4 values 0, 1, 2, and 3.
 
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