Is your information destroyed when you reach the singularity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the fate of information when it reaches a black hole singularity, exploring concepts from semi-classical gravity, Hawking radiation, and the implications for information conservation. Participants examine whether information is destroyed, retained, or duplicated in the context of black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that information is preserved on the event horizon and can be retrieved when the event horizon shrinks, questioning if this leads to a violation of information conservation.
  • Another participant asserts that in semi-classical gravity, information is destroyed as it is transformed into thermal radiation, specifically Hawking radiation, and this occurs at the event horizon rather than the singularity.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that information cannot be destroyed, arguing that crossing the event horizon results in mass increase, which constitutes information, and posits that information remains in the universe as per Susskind's arguments.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the existence of a singularity, proposing that objects do not spiral into a black hole's center, suggesting a ground state instead.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the fate of information in black holes, with no consensus reached on whether information is destroyed, preserved, or duplicated.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various theoretical frameworks, including semi-classical gravity and string theory, and mention specific proposals like Mathur's fuzzball proposal, indicating a reliance on different interpretations and assumptions about black hole physics.

jadrian
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from my understanding from an observer in the universe, your information is plastered on the event horizon, and ultimately retrieved when the event horizon shrinks to the schwartschild radius and the singularity explodes. please coreect me if I am wrong on that.

if the singularity does not destroy your information, won't this represent a duplication of information and violation of conservation of information?
 
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In semi-classical gravity (quantum matter, fixed curved spacetime) information is destroyed. Organized stuff goes in and comes back out as thermal radiation - the famous Hawking radiation. This isn't due to the singularity, but to the event horizon, which is the point of no return.

It is widely thought that this should not happen in a fully quantum mechanical theory like string theory. However, whether this is so is unclear. One proposal is Mathur's fuzzball proposal.
 
atyy said:
In semi-classical gravity (quantum matter, fixed curved spacetime) information is destroyed. Organized stuff goes in and comes back out as thermal radiation - the famous Hawking radiation. This isn't due to the singularity, but to the event horizon, which is the point of no return.

It is widely thought that this should not happen in a fully quantum mechanical theory like string theory. However, whether this is so is unclear. One proposal is Mathur's fuzzball proposal.

i don't really see how under any circumstances information can be destroyed. you crossing the event horizing will lead to mass increase in the black hole, which is information. but since inside the event horizon is not part of the universe, and suskind proved that the information will remain in the universe, i don't see any problem other than duplication of matter assuming the singularity eventually releases everything once the event horizon shrinks to the schwartschild radius and your mass outside the event horizon will add to your mass within the horizon.
 
I'm pretty sure there is no singularity. Objects don't spiral into the center of a black hole for the same reason that electrons don't spiral into the nucleus. There's some ground state there.
 

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