Learjet60 (N722BD) Crash near Palm Beach, Florida, US on Nov 1, 2026

[Greg Bernhardt]

How in the world do hurricane planes do it?

 

[russ_watters]

How in the world do hurricane planes do it?

I don't think they deal with icing. Turbulence is certainly a symptom of thunderstorms, but unlikely to be what brought the plane down.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I don't think they deal with icing.

Since they were in Florida and Florida is hurricane alley, was it more about the elevation they were flying? Hurricane plane fly much lower?

 

[.Scott]

How in the world do hurricane planes do it?

If I had to pick out key differences between NOAA's P3 Orions and Learjet N722BD, it would be:
1) Radar - 2BD weather radar is OK - the Orions have 3 weather radar systems;
2) Pilot preparedness
3) A more forgiving aircraft

 

[.Scott]

It will be interesting to find out how much engine sound made it into Nathalia's transmissions on both flights and what the NTSB will be able to gather from them.

 

[Janus]

How in the world do hurricane planes do it?

Hurricanes are large weather systems with a circular wind pattern. Thunderstorms are smaller, localized and driven by strong updrafts and downdrafts. Thus thunderstorms are more likely to cause the sudden changes in altitude associated with turbulence. This also increases the chances of icing as the updrafts carry moisture up to higher, cooler alitudes (this is how hail forms: Moisture freezes at altitude, falls to lower alitude, picks up moisture, is carryied by an updraft to where that accumulted moisture freezes.... This repeats until the hailstone gets too heavy or is thrown clear of the updrafts.)

As to the question about altitude. The initial weather reports they were given had the tops of the storm below their cruising altitude, so they had hoped to fly over it. Things changed rapidily however, and by the time they reached it, the storm tops had raised to above their altitude. In addition, they had already requested and been given permission to alter their flight plan in order to fly South of the storm system. It just moved South and grew faster than expected.

 

[.Scott]

"CFD Toolbox" has published a video report of a study that models the Learjet 60 under the icing conditions tha N722BD encountered on Nov 1. It's technical.

Even though the flight reported that icing was manageable, leading edge wing de-icing could have had a significant adverse effect.

I found the discussion of the tail icing to be especially interesting. It could readily explain the difficulty the pilot was having maintaining proper altitude even if the "moderate turbulence" reports were accurate.

I find it easy to believe how the effects of icing can be misjudged. Twice during my instrument training, I either immediately ended a flight or stayed on the ground despite my check pilot's advice.

 

[DaveC426913]

stayed on the ground despite my check pilot's advice.

Curious: did you get dinged for the decision? Or did they respect it?

 

[.Scott]

Curious: did you get dinged for the decision? Or did they respect it?

I'm paying for the instructional flights - so, if anyone does any "dinging", it would have been me.

I was living in Virginia at the time and I had an instructional IFR flight scheduled for later that day at Dulles.
So, I called in for a weather forecast. It was not a long call, I got the message real quick. So I called my instructor and said we're going to have to reschedule this. He thought I was being rash and quizzed me on the details. I said "call you back". I called Dulles weather again and this time got a full detailed report. Then, thinking that I was armed for a quick conversation, called my instructor back. With details in hand, he felt it was a manageable situation and the flight should be a go. I thought that the fee I was paying him was making him crazy. So, I called Dulles back again. This time I said flatly, I have an IFR flight instructor who isn't discouraged - I need to put the picture to him clearly. They said, "We are looking down from the tower at you aircraft. It is coated in ice." I said "thank you". That was finally enough to end the conversation.

The other case was also interesting. We departed Dulles heading south. The destination was probably somewhere in the Carolina's. It was decades ago - I don't remember. After climbing out, I checked the outside temp and decided to keep carburetor de-icing on. The de-ice makes the engine run less efficiently that normal and in a while, the instructor asked about it. I pointed to the thermometer and let him know that I was keeping an eye on it. The conditions were actual instrument conditions and a little choppy. So, I didn't need the hood and keeping on altitude took attention. Small adjustments are handled by pitch. A few times I noticed that I was at the bottom of my target airspeed and altitude - so I would apply a pitch correction and adjust the throttle to bring my engine RPMs back on target. As we approached Richmond, VA. I adjusted pitch and throttle to get the plane at altitude and RPM - but to do this, I had to push the throttle almost to the wall. I described this to the instructor, and he immediately called in for an altitude change. I said we're landing, does the Richmond airfield have a good restaurant? He said yes and I told him dinner was on me.

At dinner he questioned whether landing was necessary. I told him that I would rather wait for the carborator to thaw out over dinner than hope that it would thaw out while flying.

When I hear those N722BD/ATC recordings from Teterboro and Florida, I have to consider that the possibility that they really were having trouble maintaining altitude with moderate chop. The plane had a message from them - the same kind of message as that throttle that moved too close to the wall had for me.