What+how makes higher energy photon has shorter in wavelength?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the energy of photons, their frequency, and wavelength. Participants explore the underlying principles of wave theory and quantum mechanics, questioning how frequency relates to energy and the implications of particle-wave duality.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a higher frequency photon corresponds to a shorter wavelength and greater energy, as defined by the relationship between these properties.
  • Others question the mechanism by which frequency translates to energy, suggesting that the number of cycles completed per second may influence the energy of a photon.
  • A participant introduces the concept of oscillating charges generating photons, proposing that higher energy requires more rapid oscillation of electrons.
  • Another participant discusses classical wave theory, explaining that energy can be related to amplitude and frequency, using a mass-spring system as an analogy to illustrate energy production over time.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of definitions, clarifying that wavelength and frequency are inversely related, which affects the energy of the wave.
  • A later reply introduces the idea of time dilation/contraction effects in relation to energy changes in fields or particles, suggesting a deeper connection between energy and the periodicity of fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the relationship between frequency, wavelength, and energy, with no consensus reached on the underlying mechanisms or interpretations. Multiple competing explanations and models are presented, reflecting differing understandings of the concepts involved.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about definitions and relationships that may not be universally accepted. The exploration of classical versus quantum perspectives introduces additional complexity, and participants do not resolve the mathematical or conceptual uncertainties presented.

AlienUFO
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I know this question maybe like... 'asking the truth that cannot be proven', however, I do like to know if somebody have the answer.

Thanks
 
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you're looking at it backwards - a photon with a higher frequency = shorter wave length by definition has more energy.
 
What I know about is frequency mean no. cycles completed per second. Then I should ask why and how this frequency make higher energy of photon?

(But this is weird, this bring me an image of photon energy is contain at these numbers of cycles, besides, the no. of cycles may differ at different time interval)
 
photon is a particle ...and in quantum physics u should follow the rule of particle-wave duality. then wave length is inversely proportional to frequency...so when this last one is big the other is small and vice versa
 
Observable photons are generated by oscillating charges (currents), the frequency of the photon is equal to the frequency of these oscillations.

Do you understand why it takes more energy to oscillate an electron rapidly then slowly? Then you understand why a high frequency electron has more energy then a low frequency one.
 
I don't know if it helps at all but kinetic energy is proportional to the square of a particle's velocity, i.e. its energy is dominated by its velocity.

As in, KE = .5mV^2
 
AlienUFO said:
I know this question maybe like... 'asking the truth that cannot be proven', however, I do like to know if somebody have the answer.

Thanks

<sigh>

OK, I'll tackle this one as well...

Forget about "photons" and E=mc^2 stuff. Let's just look at how we measure "energy" and use just simple, classical wave theory, shall we?

Now, if you look at simple wave theory, you'll see that the "energy" of the wave is related to the amplitude of the wave. Now, let's apply this to something simple such as a mass-spring system. the mass spring system will have more energy if the amplitude of oscillation is larger.

So far, so good.

Now, what if I have two mass-spring system, having the SAME amplitude, but oscillating with different frequencies? For the same of argument, let's have system 1 having frequency f1, while system 2 having frequency f2, where f2 = 2*f1.

Now, even though both are oscillating at the same amplitude, system 2 would have produced TWICE the energy of system 1 within the same time frame. In other words, system two has produced more POWER.

Now go back to one of the things I've asked you to consider, which is on how we measure energy. If you have a photodetector, you often have to specify if you're measuring power, or energy over a period of time. This means that the detector will open its "window of detection" for a period of time and then shuts it off and spew at you the "energy" that it has received over that period of time. So if you have two "EM waves" coming at you, but one with a higher frequency, then the one with a higher frequency would have made more "oscillations" per second than the one with a lower frequency and thus, deposited more energy within that time frame.

So even without invoking the photon picture, one can easily explain such a thing, and this is where both the wave picture and the photon picture agrees with each other.

Zz.
 
I'd like to offer an explanation as well since I was thinking about this for my physics final tomorrow morning. I think definitions of these terms helps: wavelength is the distance 1 cycle travels and frequency is amount of cycles in a given time. Equations aside, you have two waves, one of longer wavelength W1 and one of shorter wavelength W2. I see it as if they both travel a certain distance, you'll see that there are fewer cycles of W1 than W2 because its wavelength is longer. Because there are fewer cycles for the wave with the longer wavelength, its frequency is smaller. If the frequency is smaller, it's not oscillating as much and therefore has a smaller energy. I hope that was logical!

-K
 
AlienUFO said:
What I know about is frequency mean no. cycles completed per second. Then I should ask why and how this frequency make higher energy of photon?

(But this is weird, this bring me an image of photon energy is contain at these numbers of cycles, besides, the no. of cycles may differ at different time interval)


If you increase the energy of the photon (better the electromagnetic fields) you get a contraction of the time (periodicity) of the fields itself, since the phase of a field must be lorentz invariant.

The variation of the energy of a fields (or particle) can be interpreted as a time dilatation/contraction effect.
 

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