Have you read Reza Aslan's Zealot about Jesus of Nazareth?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Greg Bernhardt
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Book
AI Thread Summary
Reza Aslan's "Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth" focuses on the historical context of Jesus rather than the gospel narratives, providing insights into the tumultuous era of 30 BCE to 100 CE. The book explores the socio-political dynamics between Jews and Romans, suggesting that Jesus was likely a revolutionary figure rather than the softened portrayal found in the gospels. While it offers a dense read filled with historical details, it is recommended for those interested in understanding the complexities surrounding Jesus's life. The discussion also highlights the challenges of differentiating between the historical Jesus and the gospel accounts, with varying interpretations among scholars. Overall, the book serves as a valuable resource for comprehending the historical backdrop of early Christianity.
Messages
19,774
Reaction score
10,728
I just finished Reza Aslan's Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth. It takes the view of examining the life and times of historical Jesus rather than gospel Jesus. This was something I could really appreciate. Obviously there is plenty of information missing about his life so Aslan does a fantastic job of examining the era in which Jesus was relevant too. This can help derive possibilities about him. This period of time for me was extremely hazy and learning all about religious, cultural and politics of the region was fascinating. The whole roman occupation was so tragic but again very interesting. I wholly recommend this book for anyone who is interested in learning more about the historical Jesus and the events that took place around when he alive. It's an extremely dense read with tons of names, dates and technical terms, but it's so worth it. I'm to chapter 3 in my second read through!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/140006922X/?tag=pfamazon01-20
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Greg Bernhardt said:
I just finished Reza Aslan's Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth. It takes the view of examining the life and times of historical Jesus rather than gospel Jesus.

Why do you say "rather than"? Is there strong evidence that the historical Jesus is significantly different from the gospel Jesus? I ask about "significant" differences, because there are obvious places in the gospels which are unlikely to be correct (such as the nativity stories) and many passages which are difficult to take literally (such as the miracles). However, are there major differences? Or could one say that the "historical Jesus" is complementary to the view presented in the gospels?
 
atyy said:
Why do you say "rather than"? Is there strong evidence that the historical Jesus is significantly different from the gospel Jesus?

In a way yes, but I wouldn't say strong evidence. There are few "strong" evidences for anything about Jesus. The Bible was never meant to be a historical document. It's a book of teachings where the authors were ok with being creative. Facts were not important if it furthered the "truth". One example off the top of my head is that in the Bible Jesus was born in Bethlehem. It was written so as a message that Jesus was connected to King David, which the prophecy said the true Messiah would be. Anyway, given the facts about the era in which he lived, it's much more likely he was a type of revolutionary rather than the softened Bible version.

I can't do the book much justice. Half the book is just setting the stage of the events in the era (~30BCE-100CE) and it really helps fill in the whos, what's and whys of what happened between the Jews, Romans, and Jesus (extremely tumultuous). It's jammed packed and Alsan is an absolute pro. Pick the book up :)
 
Back in the 1990s (IIRC) there was a TV series on PBS called "From Jesus to Christ". Several scholars were involved in reconstructing the social and historical context, with some filming in the relevant landscape and at archeological sites, some architect models. But mainly it was about re-imagining the social environment, personality and life of the historical Jesus of Nazareth.

Elaine Pagel was one of the scholars.

As I recall they drew some similar conclusions to what I found in the book. Amazon let's you sample most of the first 50 pages free. You miss a few pages now and then but the first big gap in the online sample is at page 51.

It is very interesting reading, that's for sure. I didn't feel like stopping until I had read most of the first 50 pages.

The stark ruthlessness of oppression by the Roman Empire coupled with the grim resistance to assimilation on the Jews' part---repeated messianic mutinies, repeatedly and bloodily crushed---is too gruesome a story for me to want to comment.

But it is an important part of history and from what I saw I too could recommend the book to someone wishing to understand that time.
 
Last edited:
atyy said:
Is there strong evidence that the historical Jesus is significantly different from the gospel Jesus?

Keep in mind that there was more or less continuous debate about what documents comprised the "official" Christian bible, starting a few hundred years after the historical events took place and continuing for more than 1000 years. There were many other documents titled "gospels", etc, which were widely circulated (and there are quotations from some of them in the text of the current standard bible) but eventually rejected. The decision making processes were not always objective and rational by modern standards of historical and/or literary criticism.

Interestingly, one of the main contemporary sources ("The wars of the Jews" by Josephus - there are translations on the web) has no mention at all of Christianity or Jesus, except for one passing reference - and arguably that was added by a copyist long after the book was first written.

IMO you can't begin to understand the current situation in the middle east without knowing something of this period of history.
 
AlephZero said:
Keep in mind that there was more or less continuous debate about what documents comprised the "official" Christian bible, starting a few hundred years after the historical events took place and continuing for more than 1000 years.

I find it astonishing that the books of the Bible differ so much in their stories. For example in the Book of Mark which is the oldest John the Baptist plays a very important role in Jesus's "development". In the Book of John, the oldest, John the Baptist is basically a nobody.

AlephZero said:
IMO you can't begin to understand the current situation in the middle east without knowing something of this period of history.

Totally agree, I am blow away with how many important events that took place at the turn of the millennium. None of which are told in bible school. You just get the usual standard 10 page coloring book style story. For some good reason, but ironically in the end I am drawn much closer to the historical Jesus than gospel Jesus.
 
Greg Bernhardt said:
In a way yes, but I wouldn't say strong evidence. There are few "strong" evidences for anything about Jesus. The Bible was never meant to be a historical document. It's a book of teachings where the authors were ok with being creative. Facts were not important if it furthered the "truth". One example off the top of my head is that in the Bible Jesus was born in Bethlehem. It was written so as a message that Jesus was connected to King David, which the prophecy said the true Messiah would be. Anyway, given the facts about the era in which he lived, it's much more likely he was a type of revolutionary rather than the softened Bible version.

I can't do the book much justice. Half the book is just setting the stage of the events in the era (~30BCE-100CE) and it really helps fill in the whos, what's and whys of what happened between the Jews, Romans, and Jesus (extremely tumultuous). It's jammed packed and Alsan is an absolute pro. Pick the book up :)

I think there at least two distinct issues. The problems with the nativity stories are well known. Starting with the gospels themselves, the large scale structure of the stories in Matthew and Luke are different. In one the original home town of Jesus's parents is Bethlehem, in the other it is Nazareth. There is also plenty of solid evidence that the account in Luke is wrong. He talks of a major census, and we know when these happened, and we also know enough of who was governor when, and that in none of these was there a requirement to return to move to another city to rule out the Lukan account. These are all consensus points, and you can read an uncontroversial but popular account (the whole book, not just the discussion of the nativity stories, is basically consensus scholarship) in Robin Lane Fox's "Unauthorized version" https://www.amazon.com/dp/0394573986/?tag=pfamazon01-20.

On the other hand the view that Jesus was a revolutionary in a way substantially different from that presented in the gospels is controversial, with regards to the literature before Aslan's book. There is essentially no agreement on this point. For a modern view that I do not necessarily agree with, but can recommend because it is well argued, is John Meier's "Marginal Jew". You can get his 4-volume work if you're a serious weight trainer and MTW has become too light, otherwise there's this video http://www.uctv.tv/shows/John-P-Meier-Jesus-the-Jew-But-What-Sort-of-Jew-5984. I'll have to read Aslan's book to see if he says anything new. Wikipedia gives a broad account of the various views of the "historical Jesus": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quest_for_the_historical_Jesus and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Likes 1 person
  • #10
Greg Bernhardt said:
I just finished Reza Aslan's Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth.
I just started the book. It is an interesting read for me, particularly in the context of other texts.

I think it is valuable from the standpoint of comments about Jesus, but also from the discussion of the peoples and history of the period.
 
  • #11
Astronuc said:
I think it is valuable from the standpoint of comments about Jesus, but also from the discussion of the peoples and history of the period.

Indeed! It's been said before, but he doesn't uncover any new startling information, but rather frames and compiles the best known data into an interesting read. I really enjoy his writing style. Let me know what you through when you are done! :)
 
  • #12
I don't have a dog in this fight, since I'm a Hindu, but here's a critical view of Aslan's book. There are actually quite a few serious critiques of his book (and some not-so-serious ones)..
 
  • Like
Likes 1 person
  • #13
lugita15 said:
I don't have a dog in this fight, since I'm a Hindu, but here's a critical view of Aslan's book. There are actually quite a few serious critiques of his book (and some not-so-serious ones)..

Greg Bernhardt said:
In a way yes, but I wouldn't say strong evidence. There are few "strong" evidences for anything about Jesus. The Bible was never meant to be a historical document. It's a book of teachings where the authors were ok with being creative. Facts were not important if it furthered the "truth". One example off the top of my head is that in the Bible Jesus was born in Bethlehem. It was written so as a message that Jesus was connected to King David, which the prophecy said the true Messiah would be. Anyway, given the facts about the era in which he lived, it's much more likely he was a type of revolutionary rather than the softened Bible version.

In lugita15's link Alan Jacobs says that Aslan's thesis is similar to Crossan's. I thought Crossan's proposal was that Jesus was some sort of cynic philosopher, rather than a revolutionary - or did I misunderstand "revolutionary" (I was naively thinking of Les Miserables) in Greg Bernhardt's post? Does Aslan largely agree with Crossan that Jesus was a cynic philosopher?
 
Last edited:
  • #14
atyy said:
In lugita15's link Alan Jacobs says that Aslan's thesis is similar to Crossan's. I thought Crossan's proposal was that Jesus was some sort of cynic philosopher, rather than a revolutionary -
I don't know what you misunderstood.

Aslan is more prone to see Jesus as a consciously political revolutionary than Crossan'
? I guess you need to read that again? Hmmmm?
 
  • #15
I took a quick look at Aslan's book. His writing is certainly engaging, and reading is very easy going. It's a bit hard for me on a quick read to know how different Aslan's view is from Crossan's. On the one hand, Aslan says Jesus was a "politically conscious revolutionary", whereas Crossan's view is quite apolitical. One of Crossan's major points is that Jesus was much more peaceful than Christians later were. On the other hand, Aslan explicitly says that Jesus seems to have never explicitly advocated violence.

I guess Aslan must be saying that Jesus implicitly advocated violence against the Romans. If I correctly understand that to be his thesis, then it is different from Crossan's in a major way. What I don't understand about Aslan's thesis (assuming I'm interpreting it correctly) is how it explains the formation of the church after Jesus's death without a "literal" resurrection in which the body got up and walked in a way that was verifiable by believers and nonbelievers. If Jesus had advocated an "earthly" kingdom, then how could the movement survive without a literal resurrection? On the other hand, if Jesus had advocated a "heavenly" kingdom, then it seems more plausible to me that the movement could survive without a literal resurrection.

Aslan does adddress this in Part III of his book. He does say that the concept of resurrection in the early church is without parallel in the thought of the time. Most of Part III seems to be about how Paul's views may have differed from those of the church in Jerusalem. However, as Aslan agrees, the Jerusalem church existed before Paul, and had its belief in the resurrection before Paul. So whether or not Paul's Christianity is largely discontinuous from the Jerusalem church's seems irrelevant to this question.

marcus said:
I googled "from jesus to christ" and got this:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/
apparently you can still watch the half-a-dozen episodes of the series.

That's a useful link. There's a short excerpt of Crossan's view there, and that of two others, Shaye Cohen and L. Michael White. So one can see the range of scholarly opinion.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/jesus/ministry.html
 
Last edited:
  • #16
Greg Bernhardt said:
I just finished Reza Aslan's Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth. It takes the view of examining the life and times of historical Jesus rather than gospel Jesus. This was something I could really appreciate. Obviously there is plenty of information missing about his life so Aslan does a fantastic job of examining the era in which Jesus was relevant too. This can help derive possibilities about him. This period of time for me was extremely hazy and learning all about religious, cultural and politics of the region was fascinating. The whole roman occupation was so tragic but again very interesting. I wholly recommend this book for anyone who is interested in learning more about the historical Jesus and the events that took place around when he alive. It's an extremely dense read with tons of names, dates and technical terms, but it's so worth it. I'm to chapter 3 in my second read through!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/140006922X/?tag=pfamazon01-20


I haven't read the book but from the reviews I saw* it seems that he's doing a very poor job. So I think it's unlikely that his book will have any impact on Academia (zealot?, only this was missing in the Jesus Studies academic departments where we have already a long series of competing Jesuses :), did he use the criteria of authentication to derive that conclusion?).

Bart Ehrman is a much better alternative, personally I agree with him (writing in the tradition of Albert Schweitzer) that Jesus can be best understood as an apocalyptic prophet. Anyway I find much more interesting these days the debate between historicists and mythicists following the publication of Ehrman's book 'Did Jesus exist?' (whose argument is not so weak as Richard Carrier claim, let's see what can Carrier produce pro mythicism in his forthcoming book, due to appear early next year, the first peer reviewed book pro mythicism in the last 60 years :) ).


*http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2013/08/09/3822264.htm
http://historicaljesusresearch.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/a-review-of-reza-aslans-zealot.html
 
Last edited:
  • #17
metacristi said:
I think it's unlikely that his book will have any impact on Academia

Your right because that was not it's purpose. It's for general audience. Not for introducing new discoveries.
 
  • #18
The problem is that he claims Jesus was a zealot. And that's not an old discovery (accepted or at least tolerated in academia). He can be easily accused of at least misleading the general public.
 
  • #19
metacristi said:
The problem is that he claims Jesus was a zealot. And that's not an old discovery. He can be easily accused of at least misleading the general public.

Why is that a problem?
 
  • #20
I am interested by Truth. If Aslan labeled his book 'fiction' there is no problem of course. But I think it's otherwise, he makes an epistemological claim. Which totally fails it seems.
 
  • #21
metacristi said:
I am interested by Truth. If Aslan labeled his book 'fiction' there is no problem of course. But I think it's otherwise, he makes an epistemological claim. Which totally fails it seems.

I make no claims, but you haven't read the book, so how can you make that statement?
 
Last edited:
  • #22
Because others (some holding degrees in the relevant field) have reviewed it (I don't think they misquoted aslan). And since I've read enough on the subject before it's no rocket engineering to see some egregious mistakes in his book. Aslan doesn't really know what he says, that's the reality (I can even suspect that, as a muslim, he tries to finish off Christianity; in his place I would try to be the first one to introduce the historical critical method to the quranic studies, we still wait for that in that field). I'll stop here for it is not my intention to change your mind. I only said my point of view. Really one does not have to eat all the apple to realize that it is altered. The reviews are enough.
 
  • #23
metacristi said:
The problem is that he claims Jesus was a zealot. And that's not an old discovery (accepted or at least tolerated in academia). He can be easily accused of at least misleading the general public.
I think you are unfairly harping too much on the title. Given the definition of zealot is "a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals." it is tough for me to see that as an inaccurate description of someone who chose to die for his religious beliefs. Yes, the word has a provocative connotation, but that doesn't make it inaccurate.

Worse, in your last post you make some of the same slanderous claims about Aslan that come from the high-bias Christian reviewers, such as the highly highly misleading ad hominem about his religious motivation.
 
  • #24
metacristi said:
I am interested by Truth. If Aslan labeled his book 'fiction' there is no problem of course. But I think it's otherwise, he makes an epistemological claim. Which totally fails it seems.

Part of pursuing "Truth" is being intellectually honest. Russ makes a great point: while the word "zealot" has a negative connotation, surely you see how it fits?

I don't know of any historical scholar who labels his/her work as "fiction" or "nonfiction". Scholarly works don't fit into that spectrum.
 
  • #25
lisab said:
Part of pursuing "Truth" is being intellectually honest. Russ makes a great point: while the word "zealot" has a negative connotation, surely you see how it fits?

I don't know of any historical scholar who labels his/her work as "fiction" or "nonfiction". Scholarly works don't fit into that spectrum.
He's not actually a historical scholar. He has degrees in religion, sociology and creative writing.
 
  • #26
Evo said:
He's not actually a historical scholar. He has degrees in religion, sociology and creative writing.
Disagree. "Religion" is a multidisciplinary major/topic that includes history as a primary component. A sample description of the major at a randomly (google) chosen school:
Around the globe, choices motivated by religion affect political campaigns, voting habits and election outcomes. The religious studies program recognizes religion as both a fundamental dimension of human experience and as a practical concern in today’s world. Studying religion through the prism of multiple disciplines – history, philosophy, psychology, sociology and political science – provides a broad focus to understand culture and geopolitical events. [emphasis added]
http://www.sju.edu/majors-programs/undergraduate/majors/religious-studies-major

Aslan's bio:
Aslan holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in religions from Santa Clara University, a Master of Theological Studies degree from Harvard Divinity School, and a Master of Fine Arts degree from the University of Iowa's Writers' Workshop, where he was named the Truman Capote Fellow in Fiction. Aslan also received a Doctor of Philosophy in Sociology, focusing in the history of religion, from the University of California, Santa Barbara.[7][8][9] His dissertation was titled "Global Jihadism as a Transnational Social Movement: A Theoretical Framework".[10]

In August 2000, while serving as the Truman Capote Fellow at the Iowa Writers’ Workshop, Aslan was named Visiting Professor of Islamic Studies at the University of Iowa, becoming the first full-time professor of Islam in the history of the state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reza_Aslan

So even his sociology phd is history focused; history of religion that is. He is more than adequately qualified to write a scholarly work on one of the religions he studied in both his BA degree and phd. He is most definitely an historical scholar.
 
  • #27
As I indicated in an earlier post, I find it hard to pin down exactly what Aslan says about Jesus. On a quick read, I feel that Aslan's thesis is open to interpretation, and it's only one end of possible interpretations that I would argue strongly against. His clearest statements are about Paul, and I think his statement that Paul and Peter were from different religions is highly debatable - I'd point to Paul's first letter to the Corinthians and the letter to the Galatians that Paul himself did not believe that to be the case.

I would like to ask this forum's opinions about his concluding sentence. What do you think Aslan means by the following?

"... Jesus the man - is every bit as compelling, charismatic, and praiseworthy as Jesus the Christ. He is, in short, someone worth believing in."
 
Last edited:
  • #28
russ_watters said:
Disagree. "Religion" is a multidisciplinary major/topic that includes history as a primary component. A sample description of the major at a randomly (google) chosen school:
http://www.sju.edu/majors-programs/undergraduate/majors/religious-studies-major

Aslan's bio:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reza_Aslan

So even his sociology phd is history focused; history of religion that is. He is more than adequately qualified to write a scholarly work on one of the religions he studied in both his BA degree and phd. He is most definitely an historical scholar.
From your link

Some outlets, though, have also questioned Aslan's academic claims. During the interview, Aslan made a number of references to his PhD and stated, "to be clear, I am a scholar of religions with four degrees, including one in the New Testament." He called himself "an expert" with a doctoral degree "in the history of religions," and identified himself as "a professor of religion...that’s what I do for a living, actually." While The Washington Post observed Green had asked "astonishingly absurd questions," it also dubbed Aslan a "moving target" and described him as being "eager — perhaps overeager — to present himself as a formidable academic with special bona fides in religion and history" and "boast[ing] of academic laurels he does not have." The piece noted one of Aslan's four degrees was in creative writing and that his descriptions of his doctorate as being in 'the history of religions' or a doctorate in 'the sociology of religions' were imprecise. It also observed that Aslan was an associate professor in the creative writing department of the University of California at Riverside, and it noted a discrepancy in Aslan's claims to be a "cooperative faculty member" at UCR's Department of Religious Studies.[16]

Similarly, while The Nation called the interview "not just embarrassing but downright offensive," it also noted "Aslan’s broader claim to working as a historian, however, is another matter." The article argued it would be more accurate to describe Aslan as "an outsider to the field, interested in translating work by scholars of early Christianity for a broader audience. But his claims are more grandiose than that and are based on his repeated public statements that he speaks with authority as a historian. He has therefore reasonably opened himself to criticism on the basis of that claim." [17]
 
Last edited:
  • #29
Yes, and...? You didn't comment on those quotes. I'm aware of the Fox interview - that's pretty much what we are discussing! I assume you posted it because you agree with the Fox interivew's tack. I'm sure you are aware though that the reporter was widely criticized for it, aren't you? My response anyway is that I'm in a meeting and a person falsely attacks my credentials as a preface to every question, then I'm going to respond to the attack with every answer. You can't let something like that go otherwise you appear to tacitly approve of the framing of the question. My take on the interview is that it was a disgrace by the reporter. She repeated the same factually inaccurate statement over and over again in a way that made it malicious/disrespectful/dishonest/inethical. That Aslan remained calm and/or didn't walk out is remarkable to me.
 
  • #30
russ_watters said:
Yes, and...? You didn't comment on those quotes. I'm aware of the Fox interview - that's pretty much what we are discussing! I assume you posted it because you agree with the Fox interivew's tack. I'm sure you are aware though that the reporter was widely criticized for it, aren't you? My response anyway is that I'm in a meeting and a person falsely attacks my credentials as a preface to every question, then I'm going to respond to the attack with every answer. You can't let something like that go otherwise you appear to tacitly approve of the framing of the question. My take on the interview is that it was a disgrace by the reporter. She repeated the same factually inaccurate statement over and over again in a way that made it malicious/disrespectful/dishonest/inethical. That Aslan remained calm and/or didn't walk out is remarkable to me.
No, I'm referring to the Washington Post and other sources cited which were what my post concerned. It seems he perhaps tends to overstate his credentials. Now, he might write great books because that is his occupation, Associate Prof of Creative writing.
 
Last edited:
  • #31
Matthew Franck holds on to the idea that Reza Aslan misrepresented himself by claiming that he is a historian. After all, argues Franck, Aslan’s Ph.D. was in sociology, not history. Leaving aside the fact that the Ph.D. was in the sociology of religion, Reza Aslan’s dissertation adviser, Prof. Mark Juergensmayer, weighed in:

"Since i was Reza’s thesis adviser at the Univ of California-Santa Barbara, I can testify that he is a religious studies scholar. (I am a sociologist of religion with a position in sociology and an affiliation with religious studies). Though Reza’s PhD is in sociology most of his graduate course work at UCSB was in the history of religion in the dept of religious studies. Though none of his 4 degrees are in history as such, he is a “historian of religion” in the way that that term is used at the Univ of Chicago to cover the field of comparative religion; and his theology degree at Harvard covered Bible and Church history, and required him to master New Testament Greek. So in short, he is who he says he is."

It is not unreasonable for a person who majored in the sociology of religion to consider himself a historian of religion if his emphasis during study was in history. There is a very large overlap between the fields, especially since “most of his graduate course work was in the history of religion in the dept of religious studies.”

Yes, he is a professor of creative writing, but he also teaches courses–as a professor–on religion.


The crux of the matter is that Reza Aslan is a scholar of religion (which includes the history of religion). Aslan has hefty academic qualifications and did not misrepresent himself. But, just as the Fox News interviewer was guilty of projection, so too is Robert Spencer guilty of projection when he accuses Aslan of misrepresenting his scholarly credentials.

http://www.islamophobiatoday.com/20...the-same-credentials-as-reza-aslan-oh-really/
 
  • Like
Likes 1 person
  • #32
Thanks Pythagorean. And flip it over: is someone with a history degree qualified to write such a book? Not necessarily, except of a specifically focused course of study. In general, I would say that a religious studies major is likely to be more qualified to write such a book than a history major. A religious studies major includes more history than a random history course does religious studies.

And this is all setting aside the fact that this is all irrelevant to whether the book has quality content. There are no submission requirements for a book and I doubt most journals would scrutinize his credentials like this, much less judge them as insufficient.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes 1 person
  • #33
russ_watters said:
I think you are unfairly harping too much on the title. Given the definition of zealot is "a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals." it is tough for me to see that as an inaccurate description of someone who chose to die for his religious beliefs. Yes, the word has a provocative connotation, but that doesn't make it inaccurate.

Worse, in your last post you make some of the same slanderous claims about Aslan that come from the high-bias Christian reviewers, such as the highly highly misleading ad hominem about his religious motivation.
I'm not sure if you try to be the devils advocate here or you sincerely believe that. Anyways I don't think you can save Aslan. There is little evidence to none that Jesus was a lonely zealot (I mean the zealots from Jesus time, who went well beyond your definition), in fact he has much more in common with the Essenes (in his disapproval of the Temple priests, the Saducees, from here the episode with the overturning the tables) than with the zealots.

Aslan tries to sell us the old, but deeply flawed, idea (often heard from muslim apologists, I debated one or two so I know) that Jesus teaches violence when he says that 'I have not come to bring peace...' and so on (in a context referring to family values, in fact those passages are much better understood in 'Jesus the apocalyptic prophet' paradigm, if you believe that the kingdom of God is very near the family values mean indeed zero; not surprising that he said what he said, the sword is symbolic for cutting off his followers from their families).

Even the cardinals of the Pope Urban II did not use these passages to legitimize the first Crusade. Finally as Bart Ehrman put it well (referring to the idea that Jesus was a zealot, said before Aslan book appeared):

Yes indeed. The entire “Quest of the Historical Jesus” began in the late 18th century with the writings of Reimarus, who thought something very much along these lines. Scarcely anyone holds to it today, but there are always a few holdouts!

The book may be appealing to some, may even be well written from a literary standpoint, but from a purely historical standpoint (in spite of Carrier I'd say that we can in fact say a few things about Jesus using the criterions of authenticity) it means exactly zero. If you want knowledge try elsewhere, Aslan book is largely fiction, not far from 'The Da Vinci code'. Aslan should better introduce the critical historical method to Islamic studies, they are still at the level of the Middle Ages there.
 
Last edited:
  • #34
metacristi said:
I'm not sure if you try to be the devils advocate here or you sincerely believe that. Anyways I don't think you can save Aslan. There is little evidence to none that Jesus was a lonely zealot (I mean the zealots from Jesus time), in fact he has much more in common with the Essenes (in his disapproval of the Temple priests, the Sadducees, from here the episode with the overturning the tables) than with the zealots.

The confusing thing is that, if I read him correctly, Aslan says Jesus was not a zealot (yes, the title seems misleading, especially if one knows that zealot is a somewhat technical term in this literature like "Essenes". He claims Jesus was a zealot that was not a zealot. But as to specific claims as to what a this zealot was that was not a zealot, I find it quite hard to pin down. So I don't think he is using the word zealot in the technical sense that one may use it. My thinking is that Aslan's thesis is vague, so that one can find obvious fault with it if one reads him as saying that Jesus was like a zealot (in the technical sense), while it's possible that he meant almost nothing in particular and can thus hardly be faulted.
 
  • #35
As far as I understand from the reviews at amazon he claims that Jesus was a lonely zealot, albeit not being part of the Zealot Party. That implies that he was not too far from their conceptions. Everything is a castle of cards which fall easily apart once the alleged 'violence of Jesus' is debunked (why on Earth to say 'give the Caesar...' if you are at least a quasi-zealot).
 
Last edited:
  • #36
metacristi said:
As far as I understand from the reviews at amazon he claims that Jesus was a lonely zealot, albeit not being part of the Zealot Party. That implies that he was not too far from their conceptions. Everything is a castle of cards which fall easily apart once the alleged 'violence of Jesus' is debunked.

Yes, if he is claiming that. But Aslan also writes that Jesus never explicitly advocated violence. Then we are left to wonder how much difference is there between implicit and explicit advocacy. If the difference is small, then he is almost self-contradictory. If the difference is large, then he is not making a very strong case for anything at all.

I actually find Aslan much clearer about what he means when he is writing about Paul. He says Peter and Paul were from different religions. We know that Paul himself did not consider that to be the case, and we also know that there were different factions within the churches Paul addressed, so in common language one would say that the different factions were part of the same "religion" at that time.
 
  • #37
atyy said:
Yes, if he is claiming that. But Aslan also writes that Jesus never explicitly advocated violence. Then we are left to wonder how much difference is there between implicit and explicit advocacy. If the difference is small, then he is almost self-contradictory. If the difference is large, then he is not making a very strong case for anything at all.

I actually find Aslan much clearer about what he means when he is writing about Paul. He says Peter and Paul were from different religions. We know that Paul himself did not consider that to be the case, and we also know that there were different factions within the churches Paul addressed, so in common language one would say that the different factions were part of the same "religion" at that time.
Thanks for your clarifications. I largely agree with you then. But in my view the fact that he uses those verses which seem to advocate violence is a good indicator that your first alternative is more probable (it seems that he thinks that Jesus gathered disciples to establish a free Jewish kingdom on earth; plausible from a muslim perspective where the prophet was a politician from the beginning). As I said virtually all Jesus studies scholars disagree with this and on very good grounds (i'm not surprised that few experts reviewed the book, maybe they will have to do it if it becomes too popular, albeit in the negative, as it happened with 'Da vinci code' or with Carrier's last book).
 
  • #38
Pythagorean said:
What it all boils down to is just opinion of his capabilities. I am saying, in response to a statement that he was, that he's not a true historical scholar, which seems to be verified.

Basically, like everyone else that has written about the period, he's read information on the era and created a story from it. I haven't read it, so I can't critique it.

So here is a professional critique.

Since I wrote about the latest “real Jesus” bestseller two weeks ago, its author, Reza Aslan, has taken a fairly comprehensive beating in a variety of outlets. The Washington Post ran a skeptical piece about Aslan’s tendency to overemphasize his academic credentials even when he isn’t being cross-examined on Fox News, and his interpretation of Jesus’s life has been treated dismissively by a wide range of informed reviewers, from The Nation to The Jewish Review of Books. The consensus in these pieces is that Aslan’s book makes a hash of more careful scholarship on its way to preordained conclusions, and that his portrait of Jesus as a political revolutionary is just another predictable example of the way that the Nazarene’s contemporary biographers almost aways produce (as The Nation’s reviewer puts it) “theological Rorschach tests that tell us far more about those who create them than about the elusive historical Jesus.”

This dovetails pretty well with my own take on “Zealot.” But after reading some of the takedowns, I feel ever-so-slightly inclined to defend Aslan: Not from the charge of being a self-promoter who’s written an unconvincing book, but from the charge, implicit in some of the reviews, of having done something worse than many more credentialed authors who have published on this topic. The striking thing about “Zealot,” to anyone who follows the historical-Jesus literature closely, is that its rewriting of the gospel narratives is relatively unremarkable. Aslan’s claims are implausible, but they aren’t usually baldly conspiratorial or deeply fabulistic or really wild, and his book is actually free of some of the worst sins of the genre.

To be clear, these examples are not intended to absolve Aslan of the sin of writing a bad book; they do not suffice to make the argument in “Zealot” convincing; and they don’t justify its self-regarding author in his claims to extraordinary expertise. I agree with his recent critics on those counts and many others. All I’m saying is that by the standards of both the larger genre and Aslan’s specific academic influences, the book could have been a whole lot worse.


http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/14/in-defense-of-reza-aslan/?_r=0
 
Last edited:
  • #39
Evo said:
What it all boils down to is just opinion of his capabilities. I am saying, in response to a statement that he was, that he's not a true historical scholar, which seems to be verified.
No, it is clearly verified to be false based on the fact that the word "history" appears several times in his academic background!

But there is another way: by comparing him to other religious history professionals, such as journal editors. Here's a list of religious history journals: http://www.historians.org/pubs/free/journals/SearchResults.cfm?Keyword=&Taxonomy=737&Submit=Search

The first one with a decent website is the American Baptist Quarterly, published by the American Baptist Historical Society: http://abhsarchives.org/publications/american-baptist-quarterly/

Its editors and their credentials are:
Dr. Curtis W. Freeman - Research Prof of Theology and Baptist Studies: http://divinity.duke.edu/academics/faculty/curtis-freeman
[Majors not listed]

Dr. Quinton H. Dixie - Assoc Prof of Religious Studies: https://www.ipfw.edu/departments/coas/depts/philosophy/about/homepages/dixie.html
Degrees: Urban Policy, Philosophy, Modern and American Church History

The next on the list is American Catholic Studies, by the American Catholic Historical Society:
http://www1.villanova.edu/villanova/publications/acs/submissions.html
The three editors include one history professor, one Department of Theology and Religious studies professor and one Department of Religion professor.

Next is American Jewish History, published by the American Jewish Historical Society
http://www.press.jhu.edu/journals/american_jewish_history/editorial.html
Editor: Diane Ashton, Ph.D, Religious Studies

I could go on.

It is clearly nonsense to say that a person with a degree or job title in Religious or Theological Studies is not qualified to call him/herself an "historian" and write/edit religious history publications. In fact, that's exactly the type of person who is best qualified, as seen by the typical qualifications of such people.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #40
Evo said:
From your link
You may want to read the actual articles:
The boy who posed as something that he was not has become the man who boasts of academic laurels he does not have. Aslan, 41, has variously claimed to hold a doctorate in “the history of religions” or a doctorate in “the sociology of religions,” though no such degrees exist at the university he attended.
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...02446_1_reza-aslan-religious-studies-religion
Aslan bases that on the fact that his phd thesis was focused on "history of religion". It is a hairsplitting criticism that doesn't change the fact that his undergrad was still in Religious Studies, a relevant degree to be a religious historian.

The second is misquoted in the wiki:
Aslan’s broader claim to working as a historian, however, is another matter. Frankly, he would probably have been cut a good deal more slack by specialists had he simply said that he was working as an outsider to the field...
The wiki says Aslan is an outsider, whereas the quote is that he would have been better off saying he was an outsider. Not the same thing because (same article, immediately preceding):
Aslan’s claims concerning his academic degrees have led to some confusion: he uses the term “historian of religions” at times, “historian” at others. To people unfamiliar with the intellectual histories involved, the first term may not resonate. “History of religions” derives from the nineteenth-century German university context where the Religionsgeschichtliche Schule [history-of-religions school] sought to place the phenomenon of religion—especially in its archaic and ancient iterations—in social and cultural context. It has since become the name for a particular disciplinary approach to the study of religion, most often associated in the United States with the University of Chicago and the University of California at Santa Barbara, where Aslan earned his PhD in sociology. To the extent that he did coursework in the UCSB Religious Studies department, he can certainly lay claim to preparation in the history-of-religions approach.
Then immediately following:
But his claims are more grandiose than that and are based on his repeated public statements that he speaks with authority as a historian. He has therefore reasonably opened himself to criticism on the basis of that claim.
So in short: Aslan can reasonably claim to be an historian [of religion], but probably oversold that claim. It isn't false, it just isn't as impressive as it would be if he currently held a professorship in Religious Studies.

Remember Evo, you said:
He's not actually a historical scholar.
Noted above: he is.
He has degrees in religion, sociology and creative writing.
Implication: those aren't history, which is false for a degree in religion (religious studies).
 
Last edited:
  • #41
The undisputed fact is that he misrepresented his credentials.

Aslan - I am a scholar of religions with four degrees including one in the New Testament . . . I am an expert with a Ph.D. in the history of religions . . . I am a professor of religions, including the New Testament–that’s what I do for a living, actually . . . To be clear, I want to emphasize one more time, I am a historian, I am a Ph.D. in the history of religions.

After the words “I am a scholar of religions with four degrees,” there is nothing more here that is altogether true. He is certainly not “a professor of religions” teaching the New Testament “for a living.” When does exaggeration become fabulism? Right here, I think.

Place the whole thing in context–if you can bear it, watch the video again. Aslan reacts to the innocuous question “why would a Muslim write a book about Jesus” by turning defensive, arrogant, petulant, and condescending all at once. Instead of answering the question (as Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry says, a perfectly inoffensive one in itself), he recites, and in escalating fashion inflates, his scholarly credentials. He seems intent on browbeating his interviewer into accepting that he is a younger version of Peter Brown, Robert Louis Wilken, N.T. Wright, or John Dominic Crossan. In short, he insists on being treated as a recognized, academically credentialed expert on the subject about which he has written his latest book. And that’s why I wrote what I did. Because he is not one.

http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/07/30/is-reza-aslan-off-the-hook/

I don't mean this to be about the author, but we can certainly start a thread about him, I was not aware of his political affiliations.
 
  • #42
Aslan seems to have gained sympathy (when i posted my first post here i had no idea of what Fox News asked him) due to the tendentious way in which that interview was conducted.

Of course the fact that he is a muslim and not even an expert in New Testament studies does not mean that he is not allowed to propose hypotheses about the origins of Christianity, if he acknowledges that he talks about a conjencture*.

However we have to take in mind the possible biases of such an undertaking (some unconscious, we have to include also political stances) and the intrinsic merit of his hypothesis and here I'm afraid Aslan utterly fails. Actually there are very good reasons to accept as fallible historical knowledge what Jesus wasn't: zealot (I think one can mount a robust enough argument, contra Carrier, that the careful use, in conjunction, of more criterions of authenticity can give us at least strong heuristics about the historical Jesus, enough to define at least fallible knowledge, and that a legitimate use of bayesianism does not make this conclusion invalid).


*although it seems suspect to me that he uses the critical historical method, be it in a dodgy way, against Christianity but forgets to apply it to the quran, he had the chance to become the first muslim to do that - in a field where like in the Middle Ages only devotional perspectives are allowed - and become, deservedly this time, famous; what about a title like 'The created quran. The quran is not a celestial book, thus it is amenable to possible criticism' (the official theological line in most of islam is that the quran was uncreated and coexisted somehow with God in heaven, thus not amenable to historical critical methodologies)?
 
Last edited:
  • #43
I was raised (putatively) as a Roman Catholic. Unfortunately, there was no discussion in the RC church of a historical Jesus, nor was there any discussion of the Bible. In the 50s and early 60s, the RC church was all about church dogma and edicts from Rome. I took some philosophy (comparative religion) courses in college, but ended up little wiser for the effort. My main advance was making a comparative study between the Jerusalem Bible (compiled by the Jesuits) and the King James Bible. Lots of eye-openers there if you will spend the time...
 
  • #44
It seems that things changed to the better. At that time many priests were not even aware of the existence of the historical critical method applied to the Bible. As much as Bart Ehrman can be an authority (he's in the 'Bible belt' and teach fundamentalist students) I understand that now all devotional schools in America (Catholic included) teach the critical method to all future priests. Even if they rarely present it to their parishioners they know fully well the limits of their religion and have a more liberal mindset than otherwise. By the way I want to see this in the muslim world too, there is nothing similar there (no critical islamic studies yet).
 
  • #45
metacristi said:
Actually there are very good reasons to accept as fallible historical knowledge what Jesus wasn't: zealot

Allan Nadler's review is very interesting and well-argued (but I do not assent to Nadler's final paragraphs).
 
Last edited:
  • #46
Well given the fact that muslims demand imperatively 'respect' for their religion and people I think he has a point even here. Imagine that a Christian would publish a book, written in an elevated language, without insults, in which he hints that the prophet of islam was a bandit (actually a respectable stance in my view). The hypothesis that Aslan uses liberalism to actually promote islam (by hinting that Jesus himself held violence in great respect & the second temple jews were very intolerant with foreigners) is not that far fetched. I'm afraid that only a book where he applies the critical historical method to the Quran could clear him (there is a mountain to do there, read for example The closing of the muslim mind, an excellent introduction into islamic theology, to understand how islam - even shiism, be it in a lesser way - is still in the Middle Ages).
 
Last edited:
  • #47
Here is a book which covers more history, including Jesus in the final chapter:

"Ancient Israel's Faith and History: An Introduction to the Bible in Context"
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0664223133/?tag=pfamazon01-20

"Relying on archaeological artifacts and anthropological study, George Mendenhall re-tells the story of Israel's history and faith. While careful not to move beyond the evidence, Mendenhall also provides an account of the theological dimensions of Israel's history."

"George E. Mendenhall is Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, Michigan. He is the author of several books including The Tenth Generation: The Origins of Biblical Tradition."
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_E._Mendenhall
 
  • #48
I finished reading this excellent book yesterday (took me a couple of days of careful reading). As an atheist who is nevertheless very interested in theology from a historical and mythological perspective, I was not disappointed. I cannot give a detailed review, but I'll summarise my thoughts on it and this thread briefly.

First of all, I think it's very ill-advised to presume to criticize a work without having actually read it (carefully, and in its entirety). I believe at least some of the posters casting aspersions on the author and his work haven't even done this most basic thing. I cannot imagine why Reza's Muslim background (especially given that it's a rather liberal, secular-influenced and reformist one) would even enter into the picture here. It smacks of ad hominem. If his argument is a well constructed one and he's done his research diligently, then why should it matter whether he's a Christian, a Muslim, a Buddhist, an Atheist or even a Martian? So let's set aside the crass ad hominem here, I really thought PF was better than this.

With regard to citing the opinions of other experts and scholars (self-proclaimed or otherwise) on his work, I think this is a little more excusable, simply because none of us are serious theological scholars. It's simply not humanly possible for any of us to personally sort through all the original sources (in their original languages!) and the published literature exploring every aspect of the work. It's therefore good to give a fair hearing to differing opinions from others who've engaged in serious scholarship in this field. But again, these "expert" opinions really should stop well short of ad hominem, otherwise they should be disregarded. One should play the ball, not the man. And hearing from experts in the field still does not absolve us from the need to have read the work for ourselves before commenting upon it - otherwise, that commentary cannot be called intelligent or informed.

So what does Aslan really say? He sets out to try and dissect the historical Jesus away from the religious and mythological trappings that have surrounded the figure. His basic thesis is that Jesus the man is quite different from Jesus the religious persona. There should be nothing very surprising here - hagiography is a well-recognised phenomenon. So it's no mean task to sift through all the (understandably) coloured sources to try and distill the essence of historical fact, but Aslan has made a noble effort to do so.

Aslan paints a portrait of Jesus the man as probably being a rather committed social and political revolutionary, who wanted the poor and disenfranchised to be empowered at the expense of the rich and corrupt. He was a strict observer of Mosaic Jewish law, and his altercation at the Temple in Jerusalem was directly aimed at stopping the profiteering and defiling of the Jewish religion by the priestly class, whom he perceived as corrupt and profiteering. Aslan hints that while Jesus never openly exhorted violent overthrow of the status quo, he was not averse to militant action in defence of the Jews, hence the label "zealot". "Zealot", in this context, shouldn't be taken in a largely negative way. It signifies a strict adherence to religious law and a jealous guarding of its tenets against all opposition. Certain words used historically in scripture have acquired connotations quite different from their original intended usage - for instance, we almost always associate the word "jealous" with an irrational and destructive envy, yet this very word appears in most translations of the Christian Bible as the first or second commandment (depending on the source) in the context of "for I the Lord they God am a jealous God". So let's not get too hung up on the use of the word "zealot" - in my opinion, Aslan does enough to justify the label and explain its connotation in that period.

There are many other things said about Jesus - his own view on being the messiah, his opinion of the conversion of gentiles, and so forth. There's too much for me to go into here, and I strongly suggest you read the book. One thing that does bear mentioning is Aslan's emphasis that James the Just (the brother of Jesus) was actually the head of the church after Jesus's execution - in contrast to many accounts that Peter was actually superior to him. Moreover, Aslan is careful to point out that what modern Christians (of any denomination) consider orthodox Christianity is derived chiefly from Pauline thought, which was in many ways starkly different from the thinking of James the Just, and probably Jesus himself. Paul (originally Saul of Tarsus) had many disagreements and even violent altercations with James the Just about his "heretical" teachings and his lax policy regarding the conversion of gentiles.

As critical readers, we have to look at whether Aslan has "done his homework". After having scoured through his "Notes" section which takes up a sizeable chunk of the book, and is worth reading in its own right - I have to give a resounding "Yes!" He cites all his sources in full and freely gives all the conflicting and opposing opinions on almost every contentious topic. This solicitation of alternative viewpoints is, to me, the hallmark of true intellectual honesty, and Aslan has done a fine job here.

To be honest, I haven't watched any of the interviews where Aslan has been baited. Nor do I really want to - the work clearly stands on its own. Aslan has already done an exemplary job in being his own critic in the Notes section. And I don't think he'd react negatively (let alone rabidly) to a constructive challenge of his scholarship in this work. But inferring that his scholarship is suspect simply because he's a practising Muslim is NOT a constructive challenge, and deserves nothing but derision.

metacristi said:
Well given the fact that muslims demand imperatively 'respect' for their religion and people I think he has a point even here. Imagine that a Christian would publish a book, written in an elevated language, without insults, in which he hints that the prophet of islam was a bandit (actually a respectable stance in my view). The hypothesis that Aslan uses liberalism to actually promote islam (by hinting that Jesus himself held violence in great respect & the second temple jews were very intolerant with foreigners) is not that far fetched. I'm afraid that only a book where he applies the critical historical method to the Quran could clear him (there is a mountain to do there, read for example The closing of the muslim mind, an excellent introduction into islamic theology, to understand how islam - even shiism, be it in a lesser way - is still in the Middle Ages).

How do you know that Aslan has not performed the same sort of detached historical analysis on Islam itself? I don't know whether you've even read the work that's being discussed here (in its entirety), let alone any of his other writings, so what entitles you to cast such aspersions?

For your information, Aslan actually has probed the life and times of Muhammad in an earlier book called "No god but God". I've only skimmed it, but even from a cursory reading, he's making a real effort to separate the man from the myth, just like he's done with Jesus in this new book. He's never said anything that can objectively be considered grossly disrespectful about either of these religious figures (Muhammad or Jesus) in any of his works, so I don't see why you're getting all worked up about it. At the very least, if you want to develop and harbour strong opinions on a work, read it first! Please don't rely on reviews from Amazon and hearsay evidence.

Let me end with a short, slightly tangential personal note. I am very grateful for the secular milieu in which I and most of the world live. Most theocracies place strict limits on freedom of speech. It is only the relaxation of the grip of formalised religion (of any sort) on the modern world, and the separation of church and state, that's allowed us to progress as a civilisation. Reza Aslan could not have written his works outside a secular framework that values free and unfettered discourse, even on "sensitive" topics. It would not be an exaggeration to state that none of us would be here sharing our opinions so freely on PhysicsForums without the strong influence of secular thought on the world (heck, Physics itself might not exist in the current highly developed form if we were under a theocracy). So let's recognise that while religion has its role in the modern world, we have even more to be grateful for towards secularism. As scientifically minded people (which I presume the majority of members of PF are), we are even more indebted to secularism than the average Joe.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes 1 person
  • #49
Curious3141 said:
First of all, I think it's very ill-advised to presume to criticize a work without having actually read it (carefully, and in its entirety). I believe at least some of the posters casting aspersions on the author and his work haven't even done this most basic thing. I cannot imagine why Reza's Muslim background (especially given that it's a rather liberal, secular-influenced and reformist one) would even enter into the picture here. It smacks of ad hominem. If his argument is a well constructed one and he's done his research diligently, then why should it matter whether he's a Christian, a Muslim, a Buddhist, an Atheist or even a Martian? So let's set aside the crass ad hominem here, I really thought PF was better than this.

Actually, Aslan's Muslim background is relevant, because he ends the book with "... Jesus the man - is every bit as compelling, charismatic, and praiseworthy as Jesus the Christ. He is, in short, someone worth believing in.". So he invites the reader to consider his work as not only a historical study.

Curious3141 said:
Moreover, Aslan is careful to point out that what modern Christians (of any denomination) consider orthodox Christianity is derived chiefly from Pauline thought, which was in many ways starkly different from the thinking of James the Just, and probably Jesus himself. Paul (originally Saul of Tarsus) had many disagreements and even violent altercations with James the Just about his "heretical" teachings and his lax policy regarding the conversion of gentiles.

I most disagreed with Aslan here. There were certainly differences between Peter and Paul at times, and probably between James and Paul, as Aslan indicates. Paul himself documents some of these differences. I am not aware of Paul's explicit opinion of James's teaching, but there is indirect evidence that Paul did not consider his teaching fundamentally different from Peter's. For example in 1 Corinthians he writes (in the NRSV translation) "For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there are quarrels among you, my brothers and sisters. What I mean is that each of you says, ‘I belong to Paul’, or ‘I belong to Apollos’, or ‘I belong to Cephas’, or ‘I belong to Christ.’ Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" Here we see that there were divisions within the early church, but it also suggests that Paul did not wish the church to follow his teaching instead of Peter's. Also, while the specific reason given in James (which may or may not reflect James the Just's teaching) for why works and faith are important are different, both Paul and the author of James agreed that both were important. I would point also to the New Testament document "Hebrews" (possibly representing a tradition different from both Paul and James) as giving detailed reasons for many things that are very hard to reconcile with Paul's reasons. Yet at a gross level, the message of Hebrews is consistent with Paul's. At any rate, we do have quite specific ideas as to what the differences were, and we know these people were in contact with each other, and influenced each other. Whether these differences were "big" or "small" or to the point where Peter and Paul came from different religions, as Aslan writes, will depend quite sensitively on what "big", "small" and "different religions" mean.
 
Last edited:
  • #50
When it comes to works of fiction, of course the author's "credentials" are of no concern. They are of concern, however, when it comes to historical works.

Like I said previously, I can't critique it because I haven't read it, but people I do trust say that the book is not as good (historically) as similar books by more knowledgeable authors. So, depending on if you are reading it mostly for entertainment or are seriously concerned with the history people will have differing opinions.
 
Back
Top